Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
196 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 320

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 544638 times)

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2360 on: November 29, 2018, 10:04:54 AM »
Because you know more Halacha than R’ Shmuel??
This opinion is on medicine, not Halacha.

Theres also no comparison go something like the internet because theres literally questions of life and death.

This would be akin to a posek coming out with a Psak that we should not wear seat belts or something. Not rooted in Torah and disagreed upon by 99% of world experts.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 10:09:55 AM by shaulyaakov »

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8188
  • Total likes: 2713
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2361 on: November 29, 2018, 10:16:01 AM »
I vax and I think antivaxxers ares mostly nuts.

But from a Daas Torah perspective, R’ Shmuel kamenetsky and R‘ Malkiel  Kotler, two of the leading gedolei poskim verabbanim in America, are both vehemently antivax. And the central Agudah/Moetzes has never put out anything pro vaccination publicly. Just saying.
One of them yes, one of them is not considered a leading posek (and I think the other titles are overdoing it too)

Mind you, I don’t think they should be allowed in school. Live your life, but don’t endanger mine. My wife is expecting and was teaching in a school that at first allowed them to remain, she said she’s not coming back until they’re not allowed in school, as measles is very dangerous for a pregnant woman. They subsequently changed their policy and she rpcontinued teaching.
German Measles is very dangerous for pregnant woman, the current outbreak is not German Measles it's a completely different virus which is not especially dangerous for pregnant women.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2362 on: November 29, 2018, 10:18:32 AM »
As long as "Gedolim" are literally endangering the public, people should boycott their shiurim, sefarim, and institutions (and most importantly, their donations).

There's not one shred of Halacha to support this position, and they are in a clear minority. It's not so different than Lev Tahor or any other radical group/


This opinion is on medicine, not Halacha.

Theres also no comparison go something like the internet because theres literally questions of life and death.

This would be akin to a posek coming out with a Psak that we should not wear seat belts or something. Not rooted in Torah and disagreed upon by 99% of world experts.
How do you know it’s not based on Halacha?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1501
  • Total likes: 1675
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2363 on: November 29, 2018, 10:18:54 AM »
That is not going to instill much confidence in the shot. I am an anti-flu shot person. Just my personal choice.

The symptoms are flu-like, but a lot less severe.

Do you regularly come in contact with young children or elderly people? If not, I (personally) think that's a good choice.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2364 on: November 29, 2018, 10:19:21 AM »
German Measles is very dangerous for pregnant woman, the current outbreak is not German Measles it's a completely different virus which is not especially dangerous for pregnant women.
Interesting. Goes to show how much research I’ve done :)
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2365 on: November 29, 2018, 10:20:09 AM »
The symptoms are flu-like, but a lot less severe.

Do you regularly come in contact with young children or elderly people? If not, I (personally) think that's a good choice.
Why? Aren’t you technically endangering others, just like with measles?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2366 on: November 29, 2018, 10:20:17 AM »
How do you know it’s not based on Halacha?
Interesting. Goes to show how much research I’ve done :)
חדא מתרצת לחברתה

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7469
  • Total likes: 3930
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2367 on: November 29, 2018, 10:22:26 AM »
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2368 on: November 29, 2018, 10:22:53 AM »
Do you regularly come in contact with young children or elderly people? If not, I (personally) think that's a good choice.
Yes but hardly ever get the flu. DW on the other hand gets vaccinated every year. My kids (young adults) get vaccinated sometimes.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2369 on: November 29, 2018, 10:32:38 AM »
The correlation between getting the flu after the flu shot are misguided. Chances are the people in question have immuno deficiencies and would have gotten it anyway. It worst, the shot most likely had no affect, and at best, it blunts the virus a little.

Correlation =/= causation.

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2370 on: November 29, 2018, 10:38:29 AM »
Yes but hardly ever get the flu. DW on the other hand gets vaccinated every year. My kids (young adults) get vaccinated sometimes.
Why is hardly ever enough for you not to immunize?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2371 on: November 29, 2018, 10:46:05 AM »
Why is hardly ever enough for you not to immunize?
Because the flu is no big deal and many that do get the shot still get the flu. I have had and get all the major recommended shots. Same for the whole family.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2372 on: November 29, 2018, 10:47:36 AM »
with R’ Chaim Kanievsky regarding internet. Just “misinformation”.
Don't wanna go off topic, but i recently saw a picture of reb chaim giving out the 'chaluka' for some big tzedaka in eretz yisroel on a laptop (gasp)... That doesn't shtim with a lot of the quotes he's quoted saying regarding how treif the internet is... Unless they found a way to do it without the internet...

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2373 on: November 29, 2018, 10:50:31 AM »
Because the flu is no big deal and many that do get the shot still get the flu. I have had and get all the major recommended shots. Same for the whole family.
How many flu related deaths are there annually in the US?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2374 on: November 29, 2018, 10:52:09 AM »
How many flu related deaths are there annually in the US?
If I was worried about dying I wouldn't be living in Chicago.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2375 on: November 29, 2018, 10:52:36 AM »
If I was worried about dying I wouldn't be living in Chicago.  :)
Lol

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2376 on: November 29, 2018, 10:55:23 AM »
Lol
Seriously, like I said this a personal choice. I would never tell a family member or anyone else not to get a flu shot.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2377 on: November 29, 2018, 10:58:35 AM »
Seriously, like I said this a personal choice. I would never tell a family member or anyone else not to get a flu shot.
Are u considering the effects of that decision on immunocompromised people?

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2378 on: November 29, 2018, 11:07:10 AM »
Because the flu is no big deal and many that do get the shot still get the flu. I have had and get all the major recommended shots. Same for the whole family.

Last season 180 kids died of the flu. Hospitals in NY and NJ didn't have enough beds for all the kids with severe symptoms.
Among vaccinated kids who got the flu despite the vaccine, mortality dropped by 85% and symptoms were way less severe. Obviously, it's different for adults, but lest anyone with kids is reading this and thinking it's no big deal, it is a big deal.

Offline shmielyosef

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2379 on: November 29, 2018, 11:12:14 AM »
Last season 180 kids died of the flu. Hospitals in NY and NJ didn't have enough beds for all the kids with severe symptoms.
Among vaccinated kids who got the flu despite the vaccine, mortality dropped by 85% and symptoms were way less severe. Obviously, it's different for adults, but lest anyone with kids is reading this and thinking it's no big deal, it is a big deal.
According to this https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017--2018-cdc-bn/index.html last year 80,000 ppl died from flu related deaths