Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.7%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
185 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 304

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 257115 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2400 on: November 29, 2018, 02:03:10 PM »
I don't know what type of anti vaxxers you know but the ones I know have spent countless hours researching and researching this topic.  Yes it  is true that they have no medical background but they have looked into this a lot more than their local pediatrician.  (I agree that כל זמן their sources are coming from people like Wakefield who lost his license it sure makes it hard to take them seriously.) they read and read and have answers to all the questions being raised here.  How good their answers are is a matter of opinion.
My point is just that I am trying to understand where they are coming from.  I believe there is some truth in what they are saying.  To just write them off as quacks and fools doesn't deal with the issues.  The people I know are way too smart and have put in way too much time to just say they are crazy.  They might be misguided both from a medical and a halachic point of view but I am curious where their mistake is.

If the news reports are to be believed that hundreds of people recently gave in and vaccinated their children, than clearly many anti vaxxers are not like this.  The anti vaxxers I know would never give in and in fact been encouraged and given chizzuk  by their rabbanim that it's better to keep their children home from school.
In a nutshell those who vaccinate will say the anti-vaccinators are relying of flawed information. The anti-vaccinators I know have researched it to death. I still disagree with them.
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Online skyguy918

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2401 on: November 29, 2018, 02:19:43 PM »
I don't know what type of anti vaxxers you know but the ones I know have spent countless hours researching and researching this topic.  Yes it  is true that they have no medical background but they have looked into this a lot more than their local pediatrician.  (I agree that כל זמן their sources are coming from people like Wakefield who lost his license it sure makes it hard to take them seriously.) they read and read and have answers to all the questions being raised here.  How good their answers are is a matter of opinion.
My point is just that I am trying to understand where they are coming from.  I believe there is some truth in what they are saying.  To just write them off as quacks and fools doesn't deal with the issues.  The people I know are way too smart and have put in way too much time to just say they are crazy.  They might be misguided both from a medical and a halachic point of view but I am curious where their mistake is.

If the news reports are to be believed that hundreds of people recently gave in and vaccinated their children, than clearly many anti vaxxers are not like this.  The anti vaxxers I know would never give in and in fact been encouraged and given chizzuk  by their rabbanim that it's better to keep their children home from school.
You're taking a very strange position here. You sound like you think both sides might have some points, and it can't be that only one side has any real truth to it, but you're not really willing to wade in and do the research to see what's what.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2402 on: November 29, 2018, 02:29:02 PM »
That is not going to instill much confidence in the shot. I am an anti-flu shot person. Just my personal choice.
Anti for high risk ppl or just for low risk?

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2403 on: November 29, 2018, 02:31:40 PM »
Don't wanna go off topic, but i recently saw a picture of reb chaim giving out the 'chaluka' for some big tzedaka in eretz yisroel on a laptop (gasp)... That doesn't shtim with a lot of the quotes he's quoted saying regarding how treif the internet is... Unless they found a way to do it without the internet...
Please link

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2404 on: November 29, 2018, 02:39:50 PM »
Anti for high risk ppl or just for low risk?
Just for me. I have no issue with everyone getting the flu shot. If my kids ask me should they get the flu shot I would say yes.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2405 on: November 29, 2018, 02:40:14 PM »
Please link
Can't find it. I saw it within the last few weeks on kikar hashabbat

Online zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2406 on: November 29, 2018, 02:43:06 PM »
I don't know what type of anti vaxxers you know but the ones I know have spent countless hours researching and researching this topic.  Yes it  is true that they have no medical background but they have looked into this a lot more than their local pediatrician.  (I agree that כל זמן their sources are coming from people like Wakefield who lost his license it sure makes it hard to take them seriously.) they read and read and have answers to all the questions being raised here.  How good their answers are is a matter of opinion.
My point is just that I am trying to understand where they are coming from.  I believe there is some truth in what they are saying.  To just write them off as quacks and fools doesn't deal with the issues.  The people I know are way too smart and have put in way too much time to just say they are crazy.  They might be misguided both from a medical and a halachic point of view but I am curious where their mistake is.

It is not a question of how many hours they spent reading about the topic, they are not trained to evaluate the credibility of the stuff they read, and to understand what the information they read actually means.

Online mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2407 on: November 29, 2018, 02:44:14 PM »
It is not a question of how many hours they spent reading about the topic, they are not trained to evaluate the credibility of the stuff they read, and to understand what the information they read actually means.
Oh, but you are? That's a ridicoulous statement.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Online zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2408 on: November 29, 2018, 02:45:21 PM »
Oh, but you are? That's a ridicoulous statement.

I'm not, my local pediatrician is.

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2409 on: November 29, 2018, 02:46:36 PM »
It is not a question of how many hours they spent reading about the topic, they are not trained to evaluate the credibility of the stuff they read, and to understand what the information they read actually means.
It's more that they don't believe the info they're reading. There have been so many studies disproving the link between thimerosal and autism, yet hardline antivaxxers will still mention it

Online skyguy918

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2410 on: November 29, 2018, 02:47:16 PM »
Oh, but you are? That's a ridicoulous statement.
Forget training - go back in this thread and look at some of the studies where the anti-vax interpretation was thoroughly debunked (don't remember if it was thaber or aygart) and you'll see that proper reading comprehension is usually all that's needed.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2411 on: November 29, 2018, 02:47:54 PM »
I was actually looking for it but couldn't find it. Around which page or reply # is it and with who?

Starts here. You will only see one side of the conversation since the user was deleted.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=24137.msg797970#msg797970
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Online zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2412 on: November 29, 2018, 03:51:50 PM »
Forget training - go back in this thread and look at some of the studies where the anti-vax interpretation was thoroughly debunked (don't remember if it was thaber or aygart) and you'll see that proper reading comprehension is usually all that's needed.

Right, but then they'll scream mercury and show you a study that it's dangerous without noticing that the amount of mercury is so small that there is no danger

Online mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2413 on: November 29, 2018, 04:01:40 PM »
Right, but then they'll scream mercury and show you a study that it's dangerous without noticing that the amount of mercury is so small that there is no danger
Thiomersal was actually removed from almost all children's vaccines, besides for some flu shots, as a precautionary measure because of the mercury in it.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 04:05:27 PM by mmgfarb »
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline shmielyosef

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Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2414 on: November 29, 2018, 04:03:04 PM »
Thiomersal was actually removed from all children's vaccines, besides for some flu shots, as a precautionary measure because of the mercury in it.
Yet at antivax gatherings they still mention it much more than you'd believe. And there's a hyper focus on the few vaccines that still have it. Even after no link was proven after so many studies
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 04:07:36 PM by shmielyosef »