Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
196 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 320

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 544642 times)

Offline Boruch999

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2440 on: December 03, 2018, 07:05:19 AM »
This whole vaccine business really reminded me how much people love to fight.


Also surprised as to how many people feel the need to make some kind of "excuse" for the Rabbonim to hold differently about vaccines than most of the ones speaking out. 



Anyone who has done their fair research (and it's not easy to do having to weed through all the extreme pro and extreme anti information to find honest open minded information) can only come to one conclusion in my opinion.  And that is that there are risks and we don't really know the extent of them. But that's it.

I don't think we have enough information to say it would be better to just stop vaccinating.
Like mentioned many times before- Vaccines have helped prevent many awful diseases and death.


On the flip side I don't really know how I feel about mandating vaccines.

Besides for families who have kids who have had adverse reactions to vaccines and were told to not vaccinate the others (even by doctors who are pro vaccine)
And besides for those who for other various reasons are considered too weak or have compromised immune systems and can't vaccinate.

Is it fair to mandate something we know has risks?

And for everyone saying they are safe. Even our own government classifies vaccines as "unavoidably unsafe". 
Even the CDC clearly spells out the side effects that may occur with many vaccines including seizures and brain damage.


I feel like if people really want to have a productive conversation the "pro" side has to understand there are in indeed risks and risks that many people (even if they are a small percentage) have experienced.
And the "anti" side has to understand that these diseases that can occur can be extremely terrible and cause many problems as well including death.  And while vaccines may have risks and while we don't know their accuracy levels etc they clearly have been doing something.
For both sides to even have a conversation they need to at least acknowledge that.


Is there really a discussion in the US about mandating vaccines? Mandating vaccines and requiring them in order to attend school are very different things.

You seem to be making a false equivalency.  The pro side readily acknowledges the risks, just strongly asserts that they pale almost in to insignificance in face of the benefits. See Dr. Roberts seat belt moshel.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2441 on: December 03, 2018, 07:05:51 AM »
This whole vaccine business really reminded me how much people love to fight.


Also surprised as to how many people feel the need to make some kind of "excuse" for the Rabbonim to hold differently about vaccines than most of the ones speaking out. 



Anyone who has done their fair research (and it's not easy to do having to weed through all the extreme pro and extreme anti information to find honest open minded information) can only come to one conclusion in my opinion.  And that is that there are risks and we don't really know the extent of them. But that's it.

I don't think we have enough information to say it would be better to just stop vaccinating.
Like mentioned many times before- Vaccines have helped prevent many awful diseases and death.


On the flip side I don't really know how I feel about mandating vaccines.

Besides for families who have kids who have had adverse reactions to vaccines and were told to not vaccinate the others (even by doctors who are pro vaccine)
And besides for those who for other various reasons are considered too weak or have compromised immune systems and can't vaccinate.

Is it fair to mandate something we know has risks?

And for everyone saying they are safe. Even our own government classifies vaccines as "unavoidably unsafe". 
Even the CDC clearly spells out the side effects that may occur with many vaccines including seizures and brain damage.


I feel like if people really want to have a productive conversation the "pro" side has to understand there are in indeed risks and risks that many people (even if they are a small percentage) have experienced.
And the "anti" side has to understand that these diseases that can occur can be extremely terrible and cause many problems as well including death.  And while vaccines may have risks and while we don't know their accuracy levels etc they clearly have been doing something.
For both sides to even have a conversation they need to at least acknowledge that.
The "risks" are like a plane crash. Do you fly?
Just rediculus. And by "families with adverse reactions", do you mean a serious allergic reaction to an ingredient?

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2442 on: December 03, 2018, 10:43:24 AM »
The reason we use percentages and not how many people in these calculations, is presumably because when ur dealing with such a large population anything small is super magnified. For example pedestrians getting hit by a car. If i were to focus on the number of people that get killed daily (i dont know the numbers), i probably would avoid walking on tbe street if not 100% necessary.
Freakonomics says that's statistically it's more dangerous to walk than to drive.

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2443 on: December 03, 2018, 10:46:22 AM »
Besides for families who have kids who have had adverse reactions to vaccines and were told to not vaccinate the others (even by doctors who are pro vaccine)
Can those families actually get a medical exemption their school will accept?

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2444 on: December 03, 2018, 10:47:46 AM »
Freakonomics says that's statistically it's more dangerous to walk than to drive.
Point being?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2445 on: December 03, 2018, 11:53:33 AM »
Can those families actually get a medical exemption their school will accept?

All of the letters I saw mentioned exceptions for "legitimate medical exemptions"

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2446 on: December 03, 2018, 12:20:44 PM »
Can those families actually get a medical exemption their school will accept?
Of course. It is very rare for it to affect families. Cancer and immune diseases generally don't run in families.

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2447 on: December 03, 2018, 12:59:52 PM »
All of the letters I saw mentioned exceptions for "legitimate medical exemptions"
Of course. It is very rare for it to affect families. Cancer and immune diseases generally don't run in families.
I think I heard that even families that their doctor told them that their kid had a very bad reaction to a vaccine and that they shouldn't vaccine their others (probably a class CBC doesn't admit exists) the doctor cannot or will not give them a medical exemption.

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2448 on: December 03, 2018, 01:01:16 PM »
Point being?
You are right.  My bad.  I read too fast and thought you wrote if you concentrate on car accidents you would start walking.

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2449 on: December 03, 2018, 01:03:21 PM »
(probably a class CBC doesn't admit exists)
Where does this hatred stem from?

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2450 on: December 03, 2018, 03:38:46 PM »
Can those families actually get a medical exemption their school will accept?
Probably very easily since it will most likely be an allergic reaction which runs in families.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2451 on: December 03, 2018, 07:06:37 PM »
Probably very easily since it will most likely be an allergic reaction which runs in families.
Source?

Online jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2452 on: December 06, 2018, 12:27:17 PM »
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2453 on: December 06, 2018, 12:36:42 PM »
Anti vaxxer school has winter vacation for a month (or two)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 12:41:03 PM by yesitsme »
["-"]

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2454 on: December 06, 2018, 12:52:36 PM »
Why did you delete?
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2455 on: December 06, 2018, 12:56:19 PM »
Why did you delete?
Because i reread the article and wasn't sure it made sense to me...

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2456 on: December 06, 2018, 12:57:22 PM »
["-"]

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2457 on: December 06, 2018, 12:59:59 PM »
Because i reread the article and wasn't sure it made sense to me...
That was the first intelligent and rational piece that I've read on the subject of dealing with anti-vaxxers...
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2458 on: December 06, 2018, 01:00:48 PM »
That was the first rational, intelligent piece that I've read on the subject of dealing with anti-vaxxers...
Yes. But there were points in it that were just admitting too much to cooks and quacks

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2459 on: December 06, 2018, 01:03:33 PM »
Yes. But there were points in it that were just admitting too much to cooks and quacks
Like what?
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy