Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.7%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
185 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 304

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 257437 times)

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2640 on: May 13, 2019, 08:42:25 PM »
I'm not a maven so I can't tell you any names off hand. They are definitely harder to find, yes. It's mostly the loud crazy ones you hear ranting on both sides.
Meanwhile, whoever is putting on this event is clearly just trying to defend their anti vaxx views or wanting to convince others to follow along and the end.
Who are the loud crazy people on the pro vax side?

Offline etech0

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2641 on: May 13, 2019, 08:44:54 PM »
Since when is “nationwide” capitalized? They should at least try to sound “proffesional”. :)
must have pressed Enter to get to a new line and not realized that it capitalized the next word
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2642 on: May 13, 2019, 08:48:34 PM »
The idea that non-vaccination is exclusively (or even primarily) amongst the uneducated is just plain wrong.

In the Orthodox Jewish community it tilts heavily in that direction. Look at Williamsburg vs. Baltimore, for example and tell me which of the two has a large group of anti-vaxxers?

Offline ~King Lake~

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2643 on: May 13, 2019, 08:50:05 PM »
In the Orthodox Jewish community it tilts heavily in that direction. Look at Williamsburg vs. Baltimore, for example and tell me which of the two has a large group of anti-vaxxers?
Not uneducated but misinformed
I'm going crazy, wanna come along?

Offline yzj

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2644 on: May 13, 2019, 08:54:16 PM »
They can’t even spell “professionals”. Pathetic.

Yep. It’s really pretty incredulous. You don’t know how to spell professional, yet you want me to believe that you read- and comprehended- the vast body of medical literature out there and want me to trust your conclusions. Right.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2645 on: May 13, 2019, 09:53:34 PM »
Who are the loud crazy people on the pro vax side?

Anyone who says there is no risk and all and everything is 100% safe. And those just mocking and bashing all those on the other side. Unfortunately, the people you hear most on both sides tend to be extreme and irrational in my opinion.    Neither are going to be very helpful.

"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2646 on: May 13, 2019, 09:54:33 PM »
Anyone who says there is no risk and all and everything is 100% safe. And those just mocking and bashing all those on the other side. Unfortunately, the people you hear most on both sides tend to be extreme and irrational in my opinion.    Neither are going to be very helpful.
They're way closer to the truth than the antivax sympathizers are...

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2647 on: May 13, 2019, 10:00:40 PM »
They're way closer to the truth than the antivax sympathizers are...

That may be true but still not helpful to any sort of progress in A - helping people see they should vaccinate. And B. helping promote higher standards and safer vaccines. ---  (Which I don't think B should be the main focus at the moment while there is such a large outbreak. )


No one has to convince pro vaccine people to vaccinate. And if you're trying convince someone who has concerns (which again, I myself have and agree with) - then focusing on all the crazy anti vaxxers and addressing thier comments and denying any sort of risk is not helpful or going to help someone with concerns see why they should vaccinate. Not in my opinion anyways.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2648 on: May 13, 2019, 10:02:12 PM »
And B. helping promote higher standards and safer vaccines. --- 
Where are you getting that the CDC isn't on top of that already for the last 50 years?

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2649 on: May 13, 2019, 10:07:25 PM »
Where are you getting that the CDC isn't on top of that already for the last 50 years?
I've yet to come across someone supposedly advocating "safer vaccines", that won't eventually slip and prove themselves to just be blanket anti-vaxxers

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2650 on: May 13, 2019, 10:08:12 PM »
Where are you getting that the CDC isn't on top of that already for the last 50 years?

This isn't a surprise that we're going to disagree here but I'm not convinced that vaccines are as safe as they could be. And as with many different things and medicines and drugs etc ..  I believe there is room for improvement.  We improve with things all the time. That's how it goes.

It's ok if we disagree. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. :)
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2651 on: May 13, 2019, 10:09:14 PM »
This isn't a surprise that we're going to disagree here but I'm not convinced that vaccines are as safe as they could be. And as with many different things and medicines and drugs etc ..  I believe there is room for improvement.  We improve with things all the time. That's how it goes.

It's ok if we disagree. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. :)
You didn't answer the question though

Offline yzj

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2652 on: May 13, 2019, 10:15:28 PM »
Anyone who says there is no risk and all and everything is 100% safe. And those just mocking and bashing all those on the other side. Unfortunately, the people you hear most on both sides tend to be extreme and irrational in my opinion.    Neither are going to be very helpful.

You are probably misunderstanding what the medical community is saying when they conclude that vaccines are safe and effective. There’s a risk in almost everything we do. There’s a risk getting behind the wheel. There’s a statistically significant short term elevated risk of a heart attack when exercising. It’s always a cost benefit analysis (hundreds of people who suffer cardiac arrest while working out vs the hundreds of thousands who would suffer the effects of a sedentary lifestyle if nobody exercised). Cherry picking any numbers and raising an alarm when there is staggering evidence that the cost is vastly outweighed by the benefits is bad science. You can easily make the case that we should all stay in bed due to the thousands of people who suffer adverse effects of venturing out of their homes each day.

When the medical community says that vaccines are safe they are saying that the benefit vastly outweighs the risk. To point to an adverse reaction and deduce that the medical community is wrong is faulty logic.

Offline sky121

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2653 on: May 13, 2019, 10:16:20 PM »
I've yet to come across someone supposedly advocating "safer vaccines", that won't eventually slip and prove themselves to just be blanket anti-vaxxers


Because you don't hear those people. You don't hear anyone in the middle really. They aren't loud and yelling.  You only hear the crazy anti vaxxers and the pro vaxxers yelling how stupid the anti vaxxers are... people are too busy fighting to have any sort of conversation. 

I'm not on some mission to advocate safer vaccines because at this point I honestly don't know how to go about that in any substantial way. I'm not a blanket anti-vaxxer. I believe in giving vaccines *even* with my concerns. 
I do believe in giving them in a more spread out schedule which many doctors are promoters of.  Again, you just don't hear people like me or the doctors I know in the media unfortunately.

Everyone is too busy yelling and name calling. On both sides.
 
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline shmielyosef

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #2654 on: May 13, 2019, 10:19:24 PM »

Because you don't hear those people. You don't hear anyone in the middle really. They aren't loud and yelling.  You only hear the crazy anti vaxxers and the pro vaxxers yelling how stupid the anti vaxxers are... people are too busy fighting to have any sort of conversation. 

I'm not on some mission to advocate safer vaccines because at this point I honestly don't know how to go about that in any substantial way. I'm not a blanket anti-vaxxer. I believe in giving vaccines *even* with my concerns. 
I do believe in giving them in a more spread out schedule which many doctors are promoters of.  Again, you just don't hear people like me or the doctors I know in the media unfortunately.

Everyone is too busy yelling and name calling. On both sides.
You haven't mentioned a name of a "middle" person yet. You also haven't said where u get that vaccines aren't as safe as they can be. 
Usually doctors that let patients spreas out vaccines are eother humoring parents(which they would never let during any outbreak) or they're irresponsible and didn't think it through