Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.2%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.5%)
No
199 (61.2%)

Total Members Voted: 323

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 592828 times)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3140 on: May 21, 2024, 10:41:01 AM »
Please elaborate.
Please answer my question.
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Offline DaasTora

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3141 on: May 21, 2024, 10:42:05 AM »
Please answer my question.
I’m serious but always willing to learn. Please elaborate where you saw my ignorance.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3142 on: May 21, 2024, 10:50:13 AM »
I’m serious but always willing to learn. Please elaborate where you saw my ignorance.

You said:

By every strain of Covid we needed another booster shot for that particular strain while natural immunity for that strain wasn’t recognized.

That’s unprecedented.

You ETA'ed about flu.

But that literally proves your statement wrong.

That's unprecedented? They come out with a new Flu shot every year. This is in fact COMMON, and not even close to unprecedented.

And then you start comparing COVID to chickenpox when they are completely different viruses. Hence people showed you a virus like a cold can be repeated many times.

ETA: Take RSV for example, can get it many times and it is a killer in the young and elderly, but a cold for most anyone else.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3143 on: May 21, 2024, 10:51:33 AM »
I meant immunity from strain A for strain A.
So how does that compare to needing a booster for a different strain?
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Offline etech0

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3144 on: May 21, 2024, 10:52:17 AM »
They come out with a new Flu shot every year. This is in fact COMMON, and not even close to unprecedented.
While that's true, there are plenty of people who skip the flu shot but would never skip chicken pox, measles, etc
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline DaasTora

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3145 on: May 21, 2024, 10:52:28 AM »
You said:
You ETA'ed about flu.

But that literally proves your statement wrong.

That's unprecedented? They come out with a new Flu shot every year. This is in fact COMMON, and not even close to unprecedented.

And then you start comparing COVID to chickenpox when they are completely different viruses. Hence people showed you a virus like a cold can be repeated many times.

ETA: Take RSV for example, can get it many times and it is a killer in the young and elderly, but a cold for most anyone else.
I literally wrote that
I meant immunity from strain A for strain A.
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Offline DaasTora

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3146 on: May 21, 2024, 10:53:04 AM »
So how does that compare to needing a booster for a different strain?
I never contested that.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3147 on: May 21, 2024, 10:53:19 AM »
While that's true, there are plenty of people who skip the flu shot but would never skip chicken pox, measles, etc
Exaclty, very different viruses. Not all the same and can't compare them.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3148 on: May 21, 2024, 10:55:08 AM »
I meant immunity from strain A for strain A.
I never contested that.
I literally wrote that
It seems what you wrote and what you meant are different things :))

I have no idea what you meant now. But all good. Vaytur as they say.
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Offline etech0

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3149 on: May 21, 2024, 10:55:39 AM »
Exaclty, very different viruses. Not all the same and can't compare them.
Right, and it is / would be a big shame if people stop getting those vaccines because of all that went on around the covid vaccine.
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3150 on: May 21, 2024, 11:06:36 AM »
I never contested that.
By every strain of Covid we needed another booster shot for that particular strain while natural immunity for that strain wasn’t recognized.

What natural immunity for that strain?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3151 on: May 21, 2024, 11:07:16 AM »
I am not disputing how it was pushed or what you considered lied about. We are past all this.
So let's look at it this way with the information we now have. Is the vaccine a net positive?
I think you would agree the measles vaccine is a net positive?

ETA: If parents decide to put their kids at risk by not getting other vaccines because the way covid was handled then that is pure ignorance.

I'm going to answer this even though the discussion has now carried on and I haven't read all of it, just out of respect and not avoiding your questions.

Very difficult for me to answer net positive, as I don't really know how you are quantifying that. Does net positive mean for Covid alone? Does it include long term erosion of trust for the medical and public health fields, reduction in other childhood vaccinations such as MMR (which you mentioned), and the resurgence of illnesses that were almost eradicated? If the former, I'm inclined to say it is a no brainer, yes. If it includes the latter, I'm not sure, and it is probably impossible for anyone to really quantify. I would lean no.

I would agree that not getting the measles vaccine because of the way the Covid vaccine was handled would be based on ignorance. I am still very much pro vaccinations that predate Covid. However, I totally get why people have lost trust for the CDC and their own doctors. I myself look at medicine entirely differently to how I used to. It's not entirely based on Covid, but it had a lot to do with it.

Offline DaasTora

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3152 on: May 21, 2024, 11:10:46 AM »
What natural immunity for that strain?
I got Covid by the beginning of the first strain but once the vaccine was released I couldn’t get any pass, for places needed, although I had a high antibody count. Btw I didn’t get sick from Covid ever again and I never wore masks or practiced social distancing after the first few months.
My father was sick from the first strain, laying in bed for more than a week, and wasn’t able to get a Covid card that he needed for his job.
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Offline etech0

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3153 on: May 21, 2024, 11:12:25 AM »
I got Covid by the beginning of the first strain
So did I, and got it again at least once (that I know of)
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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3154 on: May 21, 2024, 11:17:56 AM »
So did I, and got it again at least once (that I know of)
Were you vaccinated?
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Offline etech0

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3155 on: May 21, 2024, 11:20:52 AM »
Were you vaccinated?
no
(but had/have antibodies)
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3156 on: May 21, 2024, 11:21:14 AM »
I got Covid by the beginning of the first strain but once the vaccine was released I couldn’t get any pass, for places needed, although I had a high antibody count. Btw I didn’t get sick from Covid ever again and I never wore masks or practiced social distancing after the first few months.
My father was sick from the first strain, laying in bed for more than a week, and wasn’t able to get a Covid card that he needed for his job.

By the time the vaccine came out we were well past the first strain and tons of people already got COVID multiple times so I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3157 on: May 21, 2024, 02:49:55 PM »
I'm going to answer this even though the discussion has now carried on and I haven't read all of it, just out of respect and not avoiding your questions.

Very difficult for me to answer net positive, as I don't really know how you are quantifying that. Does net positive mean for Covid alone? Does it include long term erosion of trust for the medical and public health fields, reduction in other childhood vaccinations such as MMR (which you mentioned), and the resurgence of illnesses that were almost eradicated? If the former, I'm inclined to say it is a no brainer, yes. If it includes the latter, I'm not sure, and it is probably impossible for anyone to really quantify. I would lean no.

I would agree that not getting the measles vaccine because of the way the Covid vaccine was handled would be based on ignorance. I am still very much pro vaccinations that predate Covid. However, I totally get why people have lost trust for the CDC and their own doctors. I myself look at medicine entirely differently to how I used to. It's not entirely based on Covid, but it had a lot to do with it.
I think we are on the same page and yes I was asking about Covid alone.
What if a new strain broke out that was killing at a high rate again. Would you get the vaccine?
Or how about it affected kids the same as adults this time. Would you get your child vaccinated?
Don't let the politics of what happened during Covid effect your judgement. 
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3158 on: July 17, 2024, 11:27:09 AM »
(I know plural of anecdote is not data)
Just asking a question... for the anti-vaxers out there...

So my 4 year old wasn't vaxed. for anything. (why, is a long story...). Totally healthy in every way.
Had chicken pox a month ago. (which I prob wouldn't have vaxed for in any case...)
Now he has ITP, which is an autoimmune response to the virus, where the immune system attacks the body, specificaly the platelets.
He was admited to the hospital on friday night with basicaly 0 platelets in his body.
Why do you not consider "stories" like this at all in your view of the issue?
#justasking
« Last Edit: July 17, 2024, 11:47:05 AM by yfr bachur »

Offline yelped

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #3159 on: July 17, 2024, 12:50:09 PM »
(I know plural of anecdote is not data)
Just asking a question... for the anti-vaxers out there...

So my 4 year old wasn't vaxed. for anything. (why, is a long story...). Totally healthy in every way.
Had chicken pox a month ago. (which I prob wouldn't have vaxed for in any case...)
Now he has ITP, which is an autoimmune response to the virus, where the immune system attacks the body, specificaly the platelets.
He was admited to the hospital on friday night with basicaly 0 platelets in his body.
Why do you not consider "stories" like this at all in your view of the issue?
#justasking
Refuah Sheleima!

That must have been a scary experience.