Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[churnbabychurn]

I am not immune. I am the only one in my family that does not get the shot. If I get the shot and then get the flu you know I will have to blame the shot. 

Per my pediatrician there is a very small chance of getting a very weak version of the flu from the spray vaccine.
Still worth the risk imho

[CountValentine]

Don't really understand why anyone gets the shot over the mist.

Because the shot hurts so it must be doing some good?

[jaywhy]

I didn't read the book, but dis it make for an informed it a misinformed decision?

Neither have I but the last time I checked, making an informed decision included researching both sides of the argument.

[Achas Veachas]

Neither have I but the last time I checked, making an informed decision included researching both sides of the argument.

Hence reading ONE book will NEVER lead you to an informed decision...

[jaywhy]

Never mind the numerous horrific mumps outbreaks in jewish communities which may leave many couples childless R"L.  With noone to blame but their vile parents.

Do you have a source for that?
Because according to this chart of the outbreak by the New England Journal of Medicine, there is not one report of sterility. Furthermore, the infection rate, outcomes, and complication rate do not differ at all between the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Vile parents and all that....

[jaywhy]

Hence reading ONE book will NEVER lead you to an informed decision...

100% true.
Does this mean you have inside knowledge of the reading habits of Jewish women?
How do you know they are only reading this one book?

[Dan]

Do you have a source for that?
Because according to this chart of the outbreak by the New England Journal of Medicine, there is not one report of sterility. Furthermore, the infection rate, outcomes, and complication rate do not differ at all between the vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Vile parents and all that....

That's some chart you've got there

[CountValentine]

Because according to this chart of the outbreak by the New England Journal of Medicine, there is not one report of sterility.

That chart is a joke. You have anything better? 

Which one is you? 

[jaywhy]

That's some chart you've got there

Lol!
Coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
This one. http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056%2FNEJMoa1202865&iid=t01

[jaywhy]

That chart is a joke. You have anything better? 

Which one is you? 

I plan on doing that next time I pick up a specific friend form the airport.

[YankyDoodle]

I knew this discussion was lingering just around the corner. It mixes up two very different (and only tangentially related) topics; Flu vaccine and other vaccines. I officially hate this thread, it honestly makes me worry about our future as a thinking society.

This one. http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056%2FNEJMoa1202865&iid=t01

I don't see anything.

[jaywhy]

I knew this discussion was lingering just around the corner. It mixes up two very different (and only tangentially related) topics; Flu vaccine and other vaccines. I officially hate this thread, it honestly makes me worry about our future as a thinking society.

How are flu vaccines that much different than other vaccines?

I don't see anything.

Are you on mobile? Looks like a flash based page.
ETA. Here is a screenshot.

[Dan]

As long as we're throwing out things from Google:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1633545/

And from your chart it does look like Orchitis is higher among the non-vaccinated.

Also from Google:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2079103/pdf/brmedj03618-0041.pdf

[Achas Veachas]

Does this mean you have inside knowledge of the reading habits of Jewish women?
How do you know they are only reading this one book?

In my close circle of family and friends there are quite a few Jewish women who don't mind sharing their reading habits with me. 1 trend I've noticed is that all those who advocate being "open minded" and "thinking for yourself" based on such books have little tolerance for the opinion that doctors may actually know what they are talking about...

[jaywhy]

As long as we're throwing out things from Google:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1633545/

I'm not throwing out random Google searches. I posted a chart showing the data from the outbreak you referenced and asking you to back up your claim.

And from your chart it does look like Orchitis is higher among the non-vaccinated.

I don't know if a difference of 2 percentage points is statistically relevant but if you want to bring that up, don't neglect to mention that the incidence of meningitis, oophoritis, pancreatitis, deafness, mastitis, Bell's palsy, and encephalitis are all higher by the vaccinated.

[YankyDoodle]

ETA. Here is a screenshot.

You use that chart to say that no one became infertile as a result. The chart makes no mention on fertility checks. One possible reason why it does not discuss fertility issues is because many of these studies were done on Orthodox Jewish boys who would be hesitant to participate in such a study.

To paraphrase this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1633545/:
Impairment of fertility is estimated to occur in about 13% of patients, while 30%-87% of patients with bilateral mumps orchitis experience infertility. 10%-30% of orchitis is bilateral.
From your chart it seems that about 11.3% of unvaccinated patients had orchitis.

This adds up to (on the high end) .87*.3*.113 = 3% of unvaccinated people afflicted with mumps are infertile (with a much larger # being subfertile and requiring IVF for the hope of having children).

[Dan]

I'm not throwing out random Google searches. I posted a chart showing the data from the outbreak you referenced and asking you to back up your claim.
I don't know if a difference of 2 percentage points is statistically relevant but if you want to bring that up, don't neglect to mention that the incidence of meningitis, oophoritis, pancreatitis, deafness, mastitis, Bell's palsy, and encephalitis are all higher by the vaccinated.

I don't pretend to know how to read what you posted, but it seems like the testicle issues occur in 11% of non-vaccinated versus 3% of vaccinated.

Did you read the links I posted?

[YankyDoodle]

I don't know if a difference of 2 percentage points is statistically relevant but if you want to bring that up, don't neglect to mention that the incidence of meningitis, oophoritis, pancreatitis, deafness, mastitis, Bell's palsy, and encephalitis are all higher by the vaccinated.

Not sure where you see 2% difference. Regardless you are not reading that chart correctly. If you want to make comparisons between different groups you must use the 95% CI. The difference in orchitis is a statistically significant difference while all the others you mentioned are not (and therefore likely anomalies).

[jaywhy]

In my close circle of family and friends there are quite a few Jewish women who don't mind sharing their reading habits with me. 1 trend I've noticed is that all those who advocate being "open minded" and "thinking for yourself" based on such books have little tolerance for the opinion that doctors may actually know what they are talking about...

I don't know how you know that their desire to be "open minded" and "thinking for themselves" comes solely from these books but the fact that these people who consider themselves to be open minded and thinking are singing the same tune should at least make you think.

[YankyDoodle]

How are flu vaccines that much different than other vaccines?

Flu vaccines change every year and therefore do not have the luxury of being tested by many scientists over a matter of years. Furthermore The other vaccines have a higher success rate, and treat a more deadly disease (except possibly in the very young and elderly).

I still believe it is important to get the flu vaccine if you have any contact with at-risk groups but I can see a stronger argument being made to avoid it as opposed to the others.