Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
115 (37.7%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
185 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 304

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 263342 times)

Offline thaber

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #405 on: November 15, 2013, 01:36:02 AM »
Vaccines not only cause autism they also turn kids gay! A scientist (who supports gay marriage) explains that vaccines cause homosexuality.

This would also explain the increase is homosexuality awareness and fight for equal rights. Clearly it is becoming more common because of vaccines.
On the other hand it brought down gun violence, down 49% since 1993, when those first MMR babies were old enough to get guns

Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #406 on: November 15, 2013, 01:39:54 AM »
On the other hand it brought down gun violence, down 49% since 1993, when those first MMR babies were old enough to get guns

Actually that was thanks to Roe v. Wade making abortion legal. But that's for another thread.

HT: freakonomics
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Offline thaber

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #407 on: November 15, 2013, 02:00:33 AM »
Actually that was thanks to Roe v. Wade making abortion legal. But that's for another thread.

HT: freakonomics
I was wondering if anyone would throw that Gladwellism back at me, that's probably why I know the statistic. But my point, and yours, stands.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #408 on: November 15, 2013, 02:05:19 AM »
I was wondering if anyone would throw that Gladwellism back at me, that's probably why I know the statistic. But my point, and yours, stands.
I agree :)

Although I believe Gladwell, at least, initially debated against the abortion theory for the drop in crime. But if by Gladwellism you mean out of the box thinking I suppose I agree with that too.
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Offline jaywhy

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #409 on: November 15, 2013, 02:35:49 AM »
Lol. Let's attribute every autism case to getting vaccinated even though theres not a single legitimate study showing a correlation.
No legitimate studies you say?

Here is a small list.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Hepatitis+B+vaccination+of+male+neonates+and+autism+diagnosis,+NHIS+1997-2002
Quote
Findings suggest that U.S. male neonates vaccinated with the hepatitis B vaccine prior to 1999 (from vaccination record) had a threefold higher risk for parental report of autism diagnosis compared to boys not vaccinated as neonates during that same time period.

http://omsj.org/reports/tomljenovic%202011.pdf
Quote
The increase in exposure to Al adjuvants significantly correlates with the increase in ASD prevalence in the United States observed over the last two decades and (iii) a significant correlation exists between the amounts of Al administered to preschool children and the current prevalence of ASD in seven Western countries, particularly at 3-4months of age

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535
Quote
The reason for the rapid rise of autism in the United States that began in the 1990s is a mystery. Although individuals probably have a genetic predisposition to develop autism, researchers suspect that one or more environmental triggers are also needed. One of those triggers might be the battery of vaccinations that young children receive. Using regression analysis and controlling for family income and ethnicity, the relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2007 was determined. A positive and statistically significant relationship was found

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454560
Quote
There was a significant dose-response relationship between the severity of the regressive ASDs observed and the total mercury dose children received from Thimerosal-containing vaccines/Rho (D)-immune globulin preparations

http://www.safeminds.org/research/pediatric-vaccines-influence-primate-behavior.html
Quote
Macaques were administered the recommended infant vaccines, adjusted for age and thimerosal dose. Compared with unexposed animals, significant neurodevelopmental deficits were evident for exposed animals in survival reflexes, tests of color discrimination and reversal, and learning sets.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18482737
Quote
Consistent significantly increased rate ratios were observed for autism, autism spectrum disorders, tics, attention deficit disorder, and emotional disturbances with Hg exposure from TCVs. By contrast, none of the control outcomes had significantly increased rate ratios with Hg exposure from TCVs.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02772240701806501#.UoXLnGTF3sd
Quote
This study found statistically significant evidence to suggest that boys in United States who were vaccinated with the triple series Hepatitis B vaccine, during the time period in which vaccines were manufactured with thimerosal, were more susceptible to developmental disability than were unvaccinated boys. The odds of receiving EIS were approximately nine times as great for vaccinated boys

http://labmed.ascpjournals.org/content/33/9/708.full.pdf
Quote
It is important to note that the late Dr. Rimland was the founder (1967) of the Autism Research Institute, and the founder of the Autism Society of America in 1965. According to Wikipedia, “Rimland was long an internationally recognized authority on autism spectrum disorders.”  His opinion speaks to the range and reality of actual expert and scientific opinions. Vaccinations may be one of the triggers for autism. Substantial data demonstrate immune abnormality in many autistic children consistent with impaired resistance to infection, activation of inflammatory response, and autoimmunity.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0027897
Quote
We examined 271,495 12 month vaccinations and 184,312 18 month vaccinations to examine the relative incidence of the composite endpoint of emergency room visits or hospital admissions in consecutive one day intervals following vaccination. We found statistically significant elevations in emergency room visits following all vaccinations. There were non-significant increases in hospital admissions. There were an additional 20 febrile seizures for every 100,000 vaccinated at 12 months

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Analysis+of+prevalence+trends+of+autism+spectrum+disorder+in+Minnesota.
Quote
All other special educational disability categories also increased during this period, except for mild mental handicap, which decreased slightly from 24 per 10 000 to 23 per 10 000. We found that federal and state administrative changes favoring identification of autism spectrum disorders corresponded in time with the increasing rates. We found no corresponding decrease in any special educational disability category to suggest diagnostic substitution as an explanation for the autism trends in Minnesota.

http://www.scirp.org/Journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=30182
Quote
We report the results of what we believe to be the first survey of professional opinion on the topic. Results suggest that among professional psychologists with a terminal degree (n = 88), the majority believe that diagnostic changes can not fully account for the observed increase; 72% reported either the true rate may have, or definitely has, increased.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:52:32 AM by jaywhy »

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?
« Reply #410 on: November 15, 2013, 02:45:04 AM »
@jaywhy @barryg

Show me one legitimate peer-reviewed and reproduced scientific study showing that the results of any of the major vaccines causes more harm than good (yes that is a subjective measure, but I'm willing to be flexible), or even harm within the same range as the good caused by vaccines and I will personally claw the tdap vaccine that was injected into my arm not more than 20 min ago out with my bare hands.

Seriously speaking you cannot scientifically blame these health conditions on vaccines any more than you can blame them on cell phones, extra radiation, preservatives in food products, poorer diets or any of 1000 other changes that have occurred in the last 10-50 years!
Ah, I see we are starting to make a dent in you if you are bringing up the "greater good" theory.  :)

I'm sure that that all the other factors you mentioned can be contributors as well, however, for most of the conventional medical field to completely exonerate vaccines from any relationship with these health disorders while there is clearly a link to be examined further simply makes no sense.

But that is what is happening today and that should make you scratch your head and wonder.
 


Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #411 on: November 15, 2013, 02:48:50 AM »
Vaccines not only cause autism they also turn kids gay! A scientist (who supports gay marriage) explains that vaccines cause homosexuality.

This would also explain the increase is homosexuality awareness and fight for equal rights. Clearly it is becoming more common because of vaccines.
Lol.
Did you know that vaccines also cure cancer;D

Offline jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #412 on: November 15, 2013, 02:53:05 AM »
Ah, I see we are starting to make a dent in you if you are bringing up the "greater good" theory.  :)

I'm sure that that all the other factors you mentioned can be contributors as well, however, for most of the conventional medical field to completely exonerate vaccines from any relationship with these health disorders while there is clearly a link to be examined further simply makes no sense.

But that is what is happening today and that should make you scratch your head and wonder.
 


Greater good on a macro scale is the existence of all vaccines v. No vaccines or modern medicine v. Ancient medicine.

Really going to argure we'd be better off with out modern medicine? Without vaccines? Without capitalism driving medical advances?

Greater good would seem to dictate that we follow what the modern accepted model is.
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Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #413 on: November 15, 2013, 03:02:13 AM »
Greater good on a macro scale is the existence of all vaccines v. No vaccines or modern medicine v. Ancient medicine.

Really going to argure we'd be better off with out modern medicine? Without vaccines? Without capitalism driving medical advances?

Greater good would seem to dictate that we follow what the modern accepted model is.
I'm referring to the greater good theory in specific relation to vaccination, not a vanilla utilitarian theory.

I'm obviously not arguing that.  Nor am I advocating complete abstinence from vaccines.

My point is to bring attention to the fact that there are legitimate, serious safety and efficacy concerns regarding vaccines that are being swept under the rug and attacked by the conventional medical field.
Every parent needs to do their own research, weigh the pros and cons, and then make their own decision whether or not to vaccinate their child.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #414 on: November 15, 2013, 07:27:09 AM »
Every parent needs to do their own research, weigh the pros and cons, and then make their own decision whether or not to vaccinate their child.
Some parents choose to let their doctor make this decision for them for many different reasons. Is this not acceptable?
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #415 on: November 15, 2013, 08:34:07 AM »
My MIL is a  pediatrician and has done extensive research on the matter. She is a staunch supporter of vaccination. That's good enough for me. Do I know all the arguments? No. But the same way I wouldn't pasken a complicated choshen mishpat shaila on my own, I defer to the experts here as well
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #416 on: November 15, 2013, 08:41:46 AM »
Of course you should listen your doctor!
If GD forbid someone was dying from cancer would they listen to the doctors?

If he needed a triple bypass would he go to the evil doctors or would he use Google?

When your child has strep or something do you listen to him? Do you trust him?
Vaccines are no different.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #417 on: November 15, 2013, 08:45:33 AM »
Some parents choose to let their doctor make this decision for them for many different reasons. Is this not acceptable?
Generally, untrained parents should not make serious medical decisions. You can't just search the web and read a book and then  make life and death medical decisions.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #418 on: November 15, 2013, 08:48:20 AM »
Why are there so very few trained, educated medical professionals who take jaywhys position? Do they not know how to do medical research?
Maybe its because they actually do know how!

Offline george

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #419 on: November 15, 2013, 09:00:38 AM »
Every parent needs to do their own research, weigh the pros and cons, and then make their own decision whether or not to vaccinate their child.
Just as much as every parent should do their own research and weigh the pros and cons and then make their own decision whether their child with appendicitis should undergo an appendectomy or not.
What the heck do these parents think they know or can possibly learn via "research" that will trump what the medical professionals advise? I hope they're simply suffering from ignorance and not stupidity or worse, tremendous arrogance.