Topic Wiki

The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
196 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 320

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 544917 times)

Offline doodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #880 on: April 28, 2014, 06:26:55 PM »
THINK TWICE  only has opinions on vaccinations .  ( if you dont vaccinate your pretty hung up about it  ;)
Salt Is Good

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #881 on: April 28, 2014, 07:50:36 PM »
You seem to have a problem accepting proof of the truth

Did you offer any?

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #882 on: April 28, 2014, 07:57:43 PM »
Only for those who want to see it 8)
I guess I don't want it badly enough...

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #883 on: April 28, 2014, 08:57:05 PM »
http://www.betternaturalhealing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/vaccine-and-infant-mortality-article.pdf

usa gov data showing infant death rate drastically  higher when babies get more vaccines
you didn't read the article. It is not a government article and again is based on vaccination schedules not coverage. Can you give any coherent explanation as to why the schedule makes a difference? They brush it of saying that all are above 90% coverage anyhow and therefore should not make a difference. Isn't coverage the only thing which makes a difference?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #884 on: April 28, 2014, 09:12:32 PM »
Now the ones seeking a scapegoat for autism are trying to legitimize themselves missionary style!
This magazine was just distributed in my neighborhood.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #885 on: April 28, 2014, 10:24:25 PM »
What chutzpah !?

How dare you pour salt on the wounds of the victims. Instead of being grateful Hashem it didn't happen to you & the efforts of numerous selfless people  who spent time &  money to educate the public

here's the paradox: you mention thanking hashem but still seek to invent some mental conspiracy blaming doctors for illnesses.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #886 on: April 28, 2014, 10:52:42 PM »
>:(Chutzpah has no limits!!!  :o

So you call Rav Malkiel Kotler, Rav Elye Ber Vachtfogel & Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky - no less then mental conspiritors ::)

This mag was printed with their encouragement
You lie, and lie. They never lent their support to your cause. The publishers are close to being rodfim imho.

Maybe rabbi kotlers wife, she is an reportedly an avid naturalist...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 11:06:11 PM by churnbabychurn »

Offline ABisselSechel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #887 on: April 28, 2014, 10:58:14 PM »
Just received the mag myself. Loaded with information.

Autism was not the first or last issue addressed, so I'm unsure what your complaint is about.

Their point is clear though, read the mag and do your own research. Then draw your own conclusions. If you don't want to, your loss. If you are afraid of the possibility of having been mislead and prefer to stick with your old beliefs, feel free to do so. No body is forcing you not to vaccinate. Last I heard it was the other way around. ;)

Someone was kind enough to show you information that your healthcare practitioner, federal government, global media, and society at large have been trying to hide from you, and me. I say, thank you.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #888 on: April 28, 2014, 11:04:17 PM »
Just received the mag myself. Loaded with information.

Autism was not the first or last issue addressed, so I'm unsure what your complaint is about.

Their point is clear though, read the mag and do your own research. Then draw your own conclusions. If you don't want to, your loss. If you are afraid of the possibility of having been mislead and prefer to stick with your old beliefs, feel free to do so. No body is forcing you not to vaccinate. Last I heard it was the other way around. ;)

Someone was kind enough to show you information that your healthcare practitioner, federal government, global media, and society at large have been trying to hide from you, and me. I say, thank you.
You admit to having a bissel sechel, why not just ask a licensed and trained doctor that you trust for all you other healthcare needs instead of some mothers of children who are nebach farbissen about their tzoros?

Offline henche

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #889 on: April 28, 2014, 11:26:14 PM »
And they used to do frontal lobotomies also.  Science is a lot less about "knowledge" than it is about "scientists' current best theory."

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #890 on: April 28, 2014, 11:35:22 PM »
And they used to do frontal lobotomies also.  Science is a lot less about "knowledge" than it is about "scientists' current best theory."
So whats wrong with that, is "thinking twice"better?

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #891 on: April 28, 2014, 11:38:18 PM »
My trusted MD stopped vaxing his kids & his patients

Ask your "trusted MD" why he gives HPV to frum boys & girls or why he never shows you the patient information sheet that comes with every shot ( it may even be  a legal requirement)

Because the Dr correctly assumes that 99.99% of his customers don't care to see.

The RAMBAM was a naturalist,

Anyone who has actually studied the Rambam knows without a shadow of doubt that he would use the most advance medicine available. I believe he paskens to that effect in regards to medicne from Issuei hanaa etc.

Halacha (in mefurash gemara) is actually very clear that you must abide by professional medical authority (in RE to Yom Kippur, etc(.
modern medi-sin tries to outsmart Hashem
How's Modern medicine even different than traditional medicine? How on earth is it attempting to 'outsmart' hashed?

Neetan Rishus Larofeh Lerpah means when God wants to heal someone, a DR is enabled to heal him. Otherwise it wouldn't work at all

How many years did it take for Docs to understand that that circumcision before 7 days is unsafe  due to liver not producing enough vitamin k to heal the wound

Where does it say the din of milah on the 8th day is because of health reasons?

How many tonsils were removed by surgeons believing in evolution thinking they have no function
And what happened to those that had there's removed?

The more you believe in Hashem the more you  avoid messing with nature

Na Nach Nachma Nachman Meuman
So now all you are left with is name calling
You havent raised a single objective point. All you've done is accused others.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ABisselSechel

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #892 on: April 28, 2014, 11:45:14 PM »
You admit to having a bissel sechel, why not just ask a licensed and trained doctor that you trust for all you other healthcare needs instead of some mothers of children who are nebach farbissen about their tzoros?

Why not ask your doctor? I've never had an intelligent conversation with my doctor on the subject. More like screaming matches. Which he initiated (the screaming that is, not the conversation)

Why not use your own sechel and think for yourself instead of downloading that power to your doctor.

Licenses are good for driving. A human being is capable of thinking without a license.

Your references to suffering children's mothers are just cruel and inappropriate.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #893 on: April 28, 2014, 11:51:31 PM »
Its the truth and it hurts, I know. There is no intention to put them down. It is beneficial for people to understand the motive behind the mothers waging this dangerous battle that negatively affects the health and wellbeing of not only their own children.
The motive is clearly to seek a scapegoat to blame for certain issues. Its sad and pathetic.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #894 on: April 28, 2014, 11:56:45 PM »
http://www.childinfo.org/files/immunization_summary_en.pdf


Is it the schedule that "makes problems" or the vaccine? You are looking at the wrong numbers. A much higher percentage in Japan are vaccinated than in Canada notwithstanding the schedule. That is, of course, besides the miniscule sample size of 4 countries. Arvach arva tzarich.


you didn't read the article. It is not a government article and again is based on vaccination schedules not coverage. Can you give any coherent explanation as to why the schedule makes a difference? They brush it of saying that all are above 90% coverage anyhow and therefore should not make a difference. Isn't coverage the only thing which makes a difference?


http://www.childinfo.org/files/immunization_summary_en.pdf

here the the UN report, coverage included
:-\????????? You think going over it a second time will make me think twice? How about think once, but THINK.::)
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline BBPAPA

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #895 on: April 29, 2014, 10:38:05 AM »
I'll add a few potatoes to this chulent

I am a Physician.

I have vaccinated all my children and believe in the role of vaccination to protect our children,

For those who don't believe in the benefits of vaccines-nothing I can say will make them change their minds.

(Un)Fortunately, the problem the medical community faces in convincing the population at large of the real benefits in vaccination
 is the lack of respect towards illness and the rapidity in which irreversible harm can occur.

Vaccines have worked too well -people don't see what these illnesses can do.

The idea if someone gets sick they can always get medical care with medication BEFORE tremendous harm occurs is untrue.

In NYC- there is a small outbreak of measles- no deaths have been reported till now.
In the 1980's we had a large outbreak of measles-children died-plain and simple.

In NJ- 2013-2014-an outbreak of meningitis with a strain we don't vaccinate against since it's usually limited to other parts of the world-now has claimed one college aged student
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/CDC_Drexel_student_died_from_meningitis_strain_seen_in_Princeton_outbreak.html
 As an aside-Princeton University has paid to vaccinate their student population against this strain after obtaining clearance from the CDC to get this vaccine from outside the US

Influenza killed a healthy teenager who was in the same dorm room as one of my patients a few yrs ago.
Another child with the flu went to sleep and didn't wake up the next morning (child of a Rav)

If you have ever met or know someone who has suffered from a vaccine preventable illness-you might think otherwise about the role of vaccines. 

FYI- you can see the VIS (vaccine information sheets) in a multitude of languages-  www.immunize.org/vis/

Offline CS1

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #896 on: April 29, 2014, 10:44:30 AM »
I'll add a few potatoes to this chulent

I am a Physician.
I have vaccinated all my children and believe in the role of vaccination to protect our children,
.....
In NJ- 2013-2014-an outbreak of meningitis with a strain we don't vaccinate against since it's usually limited to other parts of the world-now has claimed one college aged student
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/CDC_Drexel_student_died_from_meningitis_strain_seen_in_Princeton_outbreak.html
 As an aside-Princeton University has paid to vaccinate their student population against this strain after obtaining clearance from the CDC to get this vaccine from outside the US
I am pro-vaccines as well, with common sense.
However the Menactra menengitis shot is relatively new (most adults that we know have never received it)
and the Princeton outbreak affected a group of students who all had already had their menengitis shot.

As mentioned in the article, they contracted a Type B which is not covered by any USA immunizations.

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #897 on: April 29, 2014, 10:46:37 AM »
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/13550281003685839
So now we went in a full circle. You mentioned the UN report. I questioned your inference from it and even showed that the opposite may be inferred since you were basing on the wrong data set and when looking at the correct data set the numbers are different. So you posted another linkof someone else doing the same thing ::) . When I questioned that you just posted the first link :o . When I point that out you now post a link to (the abstract only) some article discussing that there were some higher levels of virus found in known autistic brains post-mortem ??? . Does this mean that you are conceding that the link to infant mortality is tenuous and just trying to make a different point 8) ? If so, what is the other point? I see no discussion of vaccines in this article unless it is in the complete article to which I do not have access.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #898 on: April 29, 2014, 10:47:09 AM »
I'll add a few potatoes to this chulent...
Now we are going to start bringing in real facts into this discussion?  :)
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #899 on: April 29, 2014, 11:04:09 AM »
Now we are going to start bringing in real facts into this discussion?  :)
Nah, don't worry, he is clearly just another brainwashed physician...