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The wiki is divided into groups for "fact" and "opinion." Please feel free to add whichever facts you know and opinions you have. Please try to avoid cluttering the wiki with unnecessary information such as outside links.

Please do not delete anything from this wiki.  If you disagree with an opinion, feel free to post your own. If you disagree with a fact--well, that's your opinion, and feel free to post it under opinions!

Facts
The flu vaccine causes more deaths per year than chicken pox.
The direct injection of RSV immunoglobulin, commonly known as the "RSV vaccine" would prevent 16x more deaths than the flu vaccine does, but is too expensive.
There is a vaccine for the plague, and that is why it is no longer an epidemic.
Ebola is caused by vaccines.
There is a vaccine for autism, but it causes mumps.


Opinions
Vaccines do not contain thimerosal, a known toxin.
If you snuck up on your neighbor's kid and cut open his skull, you would be arrested.  But when brain surgeons do it, and charge hundreds of thousands of dollars, it considered "medicine."
99% of vaccines do not cause autism (HT JJ1000).
Every pedi has seen healthy kids become sick physically & mentally hours after a vax (HT Baryochai)
Vaccines cause cancer, infertility, astma, adhd etc (HT Baryochai)

Poll

Did You Get The Flu Vaccine This Winter?

Yes (Shot)
121 (37.6%)
Yes (Nasal Spray)
5 (1.6%)
No
196 (60.9%)

Total Members Voted: 320

Author Topic: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread  (Read 544589 times)

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #900 on: April 29, 2014, 11:04:42 AM »
I'll add a few potatoes to this chulent

I am a Physician.

I have vaccinated all my children and believe in the role of vaccination to protect our children,

For those who don't believe in the benefits of vaccines-nothing I can say will make them change their minds.

(Un)Fortunately, the problem the medical community faces in convincing the population at large of the real benefits in vaccination
 is the lack of respect towards illness and the rapidity in which irreversible harm can occur.

Vaccines have worked too well -people don't see what these illnesses can do.

The idea if someone gets sick they can always get medical care with medication BEFORE tremendous harm occurs is untrue.

In NYC- there is a small outbreak of measles- no deaths have been reported till now.
In the 1980's we had a large outbreak of measles-children died-plain and simple.

In NJ- 2013-2014-an outbreak of meningitis with a strain we don't vaccinate against since it's usually limited to other parts of the world-now has claimed one college aged student
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/CDC_Drexel_student_died_from_meningitis_strain_seen_in_Princeton_outbreak.html
 As an aside-Princeton University has paid to vaccinate their student population against this strain after obtaining clearance from the CDC to get this vaccine from outside the US

Influenza killed a healthy teenager who was in the same dorm room as one of my patients a few yrs ago.
Another child with the flu went to sleep and didn't wake up the next morning (child of a Rav)
As a physician responsible for what he is injecting his patients with, have you ever done any of your own research into potential risks presented by vaccines?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #901 on: April 29, 2014, 11:22:27 AM »
[/color]
You are killing me with this color stuff.  >:(
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #902 on: April 29, 2014, 11:23:49 AM »
You are killing me with this color stuff.  >:(
+1

Online aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #903 on: April 29, 2014, 11:46:10 AM »
How come the infant death rates in us are 3 times as high as Japan Singopore Iceland Sweden were they give under 1/2 the vaccines

Do you need an MD licence just to do some simple math  http://www.betternaturalhealing.com/?cat=198
We already debunked that one.
So now we went in a full circle. You mentioned the UN report. I questioned your inference from it and even showed that the opposite may be inferred since you were basing on the wrong data set and when looking at the correct data set the numbers are different. So you posted another linkof someone else doing the same thing ::) . When I questioned that you just posted the first link :o . When I point that out you now post a link to (the abstract only) some article discussing that there were some higher levels of virus found in known autistic brains post-mortem ??? . Does this mean that you are conceding that the link to infant mortality is tenuous and just trying to make a different point 8) ? If so, what is the other point? I see no discussion of vaccines in this article unless it is in the complete article to which I do not have access.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #904 on: April 29, 2014, 01:06:09 PM »
UN report clearly shows USA infant deaths 7 in 1,000 Jam packed vax schedule  & over 90% compliance

Japan Singapore  Iceland Sweden etc close 1/4  recommended vaccines infant deaths 2 in 1,000

Unless someone cant count or read  its obvious
Maybe I am missing something, but ALL of those have coverage rates quite a bit higher than the US with Japan at 99% compared to US 92%. Just being over 90% doesn't mean equivalency. You are again looking at the schedule as the primary factor while the ONLY thing that really matters is coverage ::) . This seems to show that in order to get the US mortality rates down we need better compliance and that those who resist vaccines should start taking them. :P
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline doodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #905 on: April 29, 2014, 01:14:39 PM »
think twice and her kids are a public danger of infecting ALL our vaccinated and protected children  . YOUR kids should be home schooled and only allowed in public parks in early morning hours . for our sake and yours . after all YOU  wouldnt want your  kids catching our modern day illnesses , and WE dont want smallpox or mumps  :P
Salt Is Good

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #906 on: April 29, 2014, 01:41:19 PM »

If you believe in protection of vaxi-quack why are you afraid unvaxed kids will endanger yours

You did not get 1/2 the vaccines kids get today are  a hazard to your own kids ?

Are so well informed ( or brainwashed) that you "know" that Autism ADD ADHD Asthma Cancer Juvenile diabetes is contagious
One thing you guys pretend does not exist is herd immunity.
Vaccinations do not provide 100% protection from serious diseases. If an "Unvaxed" diseased   child is part of the herd, the risk of infecting the properly protected children increases.
This is how some local babies have been killed with whooping cough recently. "Unvaxed" carriers cough out their germs and diseases to siblings of newborns (who can carry a weak strain of the disease even when properly vaccinated,) the newborn who is not yet immune gets infected and we have a levaya.


Offline doodle

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #907 on: April 29, 2014, 01:47:42 PM »
blah blah blah . keep giving your kids herbs vitamins and potions .  dont complain if they have that scrawny health fooded look while regular vaccinated, meat eating kids , are happy healthy and wise .    BUT MAINLY WHY ARE YOU OBSESSIVELY GOING ON AND ON ABOUT THIS . YOU MUST BE GETTING A CUT FROM THE QUACKS
Salt Is Good

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #908 on: April 29, 2014, 01:55:25 PM »
blah blah blah . keep giving your kids herbs vitamins and potions .  dont complain if they have that scrawny health fooded look while regular vaccinated, meat eating kids , are happy healthy and wise .    BUT MAINLY WHY ARE YOU OBSESSIVELY GOING ON AND ON ABOUT THIS . YOU MUST BE GETTING A CUT FROM THE QUACKS
Nah the quacks aren't in it for money, everyone knows Doctors are the only ones making money while quacks live in utter poverty...

Online skyguy918

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #909 on: April 29, 2014, 02:38:41 PM »
Avraham Avinu ate ( orgainc ) whole wheat,   RAW goat whole milk, butter, (grass fed ) beef , real food not junk foo nor health food, the way hasem designed nature @ age 100 he was running

NO cholesterol drugs, NO vitamins, No chemical sunscreen lotions, No vaxi-quack potions

So Autism is considered wise Asthma & Cancer is the new healthy ?
Lol, you are a seemingly endless source of entertainment. For that I salute you.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #910 on: April 29, 2014, 02:44:22 PM »
I heard of a herd of cattle , Nazis ym's treated humans that way can't you find a more respectful way of talking about your on kids

So far most of my staments are backed up with a source , can you prove anything you are saying ?

Sources you don't seem to have read... (For example, did you know that there are 9 (or 7) volumes in Igros Moshe and not one of them has a Siman 90 on page 450?)

As an aside, one way you know you are really winning an argument, is when you feel the urge to mention the Nazis...

Online aygart

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #911 on: April 29, 2014, 03:07:12 PM »
I heard of a herd of cattle , Nazis ym's treated humans that way can't you find a more respectful way of talking about your own kids

So far most of my statements are backed up with a source , can you prove anything you are saying ?
Like this one? Meanwhile they have been arvach arva tzarich
99% compliance in japan = < 25% in usa because the max vaccines they can get is is 1/4 of us reccomended

So once again us kids @ 92% compliance get 4 x as many vaccines as japan Singapore  Iceland Sweden even @100%

& 3 to 4 times as many infant deaths
The numbers are for the specific vaccines. I understand that your English isn't great, as can be seen from your posts. I had a hard time figuring out what you meant to say. Before you say that something is simple math check that your numbers are the correct ones. To infer anything from these mortality rates is, at best, shaky.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #912 on: April 29, 2014, 03:30:49 PM »
Before you you throw  unfounded accusations do your homework

Have it on my desktop so it's page 403 tav  gimel not tav nun

Nazis ?  why can't i call a spade a spade

If you have it open, maybe read the whole thing not just the 3 words that you'd like to take out of context. Rav Moshe writes clearly that he is referring only to things that have no medical benefit.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #913 on: April 29, 2014, 03:50:28 PM »
1. Where is your proof that vaccines have a medical benefit


I don't think anyone (rational) debates that... ::)

Online jj1000

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #914 on: April 29, 2014, 03:51:35 PM »
How are people wasting their time replying to ThinkTwice?
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #915 on: April 29, 2014, 04:05:44 PM »
How are people wasting their time replying to ThinkTwice?
It is like the 1-10k game. Sometimes we do stupid things.  :)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #916 on: April 29, 2014, 04:07:49 PM »
1. Where is your proof that vaccines have a medical benefit
Very simple question. Do you believe we would all be better off if no one gets vaccinated?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline BBPAPA

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #917 on: April 29, 2014, 04:16:10 PM »
[/color]


I'll spare everyone the color coded responses.

The debate you suggest should include an epidemiologist knowledgeable in the field---far more experienced in this topic than I would be. I'm comfortable with my opinion and so are my patients. 

I'm sure nothing I can say would change your opinion and that's OK as long as you realize the risks of not vaccinating your children.
Curious-do you read the Product Inserts for medications?  If you do, then how do you decide whether to take it or are more concerned about the side effects?

Herd Immunity is a term in the medical literature -please don't compare it to NAZIS-but you should understand what the term means and why people are concerned about it.

Your reference to autism has been debunked by the medical community at the cost of millions of tax dollars on studies in this country and in Europe.  Wonder why we have Measles epidemics?

During residency I had the unfortunate event of a needle stick from a patient--Thank G-d , I'm thankful for the Hep B vaccine-- and had the chance to meet the MD who helped create it.

Years ago, one of my colleagues got needle stuck from an AIDS patient-went on AZT for an entire month (every 4 hrs - day and night)
A vaccine would have come in handy for him----or for that person who contracts an infectious disease from taiinted blood products-remember  Arthur Ashe?  If you don't know who that is-look up his name.

I also remember seeing a patient die of meningococcal meningitis prior to vaccine development--I remember treating him prior to that illness
Why aren't you afraid of that?

I have 2 friends who walk with with a limp-one who contracted Polio as a child prior to the vaccine--now dependent on a wheelchair   and the 2nd who says he received a Measles vaccine in childhood.--Both of these grandparents believe in the role of vaccine protection.
It's not a perfect world -product benefits vs side effects---but the vast majority have benefited from the benefits of vaccination
I don't have data for you-but perhaps the CDC or CHOP would-

What I don't understand about your posts is your ANGER on this topic---why?  No one is asking to vaccinate your children that's YOUR responsibilty to decide.
Quoting Rav Moshe Feinstein, Z"TL to make your point? My Rav received smicha from R' Moshe and has vaccinated his children--
Why don't you ask R' Reuven or R' Dovid- for further clarity-They both would speak to you.
 
Honestly, the real reason I'm responding to you-is not for you-since you are entrenched in your ideas-but it's for all the others out there who don't know much about the subject and will be swayed by you with out asking their LMD (LOCAL MD)

The Doctor who they trust who has been with them through the years is the one they should reach out to ask for an opinion
about a medical topic....of course they should supplement the information from "reliable sources"

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #918 on: April 29, 2014, 04:34:32 PM »

Honestly, the real reason I'm responding to you-is not for you-since you are entrenched in your ideas-but it's for all the others out there who don't know much about the subject and will be swayed by you with out asking their LMD (LOCAL MD)


Don't worry, it doesn't look like anyone is taking this illiterate seriously...

How are people wasting their time replying to ThinkTwice?
It is like the 1-10k game. Sometimes we do stupid things.  :)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #919 on: April 29, 2014, 04:50:34 PM »
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half