Vaccine Discussion Master Thread

[aygart]

Well at what point is a kid "prone" to seizures? How many 'normal' seizures after vaccination does that take?

who are you quoting with the word normal? The only one who described the seizures that way is you.

[aygart]

Well at what point is a kid "prone" to seizures? How many 'normal' seizures after vaccination does that take?

The more seizures a person has- the more prone he is to having more... while this sounds like a 'duh' statement, in truth- it sounds like if the first few could have been avoided- so could the rest.

From here:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/FebrileSeizures.html

and

I am having serious questions about your reading comprehension. AV was asking if the slightly increased risk of these seizures was predictable beforehand to whom they would occur. You replied with a quote that there is a slightly increased risk of them after vaccines.
  Considering that one in three children get them it doesn't seem like a very serious concern. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but wouldn't go crazy over them.
    You then write a study which mentioned that having the flu shot with other shots increased the risk while the flu shot itself does not seem to involve any risk. If so, there is a simple answer. Just don't give them together.

[Achas Veachas]

I am having serious questions about your reading comprehension....

Thanks, I was beginning to think that I was the one with reading comprehension issues...

[henche]

from the looks of it the prevalence of this issue can vary greatly between vaccines. It these two, one is three times more likely than the other. It is possible that others are less prevalent. I would imagine that the tolerance for side effects would be less for a vaccine for chicken pox than for polio.

Thank you, that is a really good point.  We only have the data for two vaccines, which is way too few to speculate what the risk is with other vaccines.

It may be one in 100 for the others.

[Achas Veachas]

It may be one in 100 for the others.

Or one in 100,000.

[henche]

Or one in 100,000.

Should do a study, now that we know there's such a risk.

And it causes seizures? That seems like quite an unrelated reaction. I mean, what does making antibodies for diptheria have to do with whatever makes seizures happen?

What other reactions does it cause that are unrelated to making antibodies that we might not know about?

[Achas Veachas]

Should do a study, now that we know there's such a risk.

And it causes seizures? That seems like quite an unrelated reaction. I mean, what does making antibodies for diptheria have to do with whatever makes seizures happen?

What other reactions does it cause that are unrelated to making antibodies that we might not know about?

From the Source of All Knowledge:

Febrile seizures are due to fevers, usually those greater than 38 °C (100.4 °F). The cause of the fevers is often a viral illness. The likelihood of a febrile seizure is related to how high the temperature reaches. Some feel that the rate of increase is not important while others feel the rate of increase is a risk factor. This latter position has not been proven.

Apparently it's not the vaccine itself that causes the seizures, it's the fever that comes along with some of them (which explains why some vaccines have a higher risk of seizures than others). Also there seems to be a genetic component so (as i speculated earlier) some children will be more prone to them than others.

[henche]

From the Source of All Knowledge:

Febrile seizures are due to fevers, usually those greater than 38 °C (100.4 °F). The cause of the fevers is often a viral illness. The likelihood of a febrile seizure is related to how high the temperature reaches. Some feel that the rate of increase is not important while others feel the rate of increase is a risk factor. This latter position has not been proven.

They told us to come straight to the ER if he has a fever of 100.4

[aygart]

Thank you, that is a really good point.  We only have the data for two vaccines, which is way too few to speculate what the risk is with other vaccines.

It may be one in 100 for the others.

Or one in 100,000.

or 0 as his quote attributed to the flu vaccine.

[wayfe]

I am having serious questions about your reading comprehension. AV was asking if the slightly increased risk of these seizures was predictable beforehand to whom they would occur. You replied with a quote that there is a slightly increased risk of them after vaccines.
  Considering that one in three children get them it doesn't seem like a very serious concern. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but wouldn't go crazy over them.
    You then write a study which mentioned that having the flu shot with other shots increased the risk while the flu shot itself does not seem to involve any risk. If so, there is a simple answer. Just don't give them together.

Have you ever had any of your kids checked to see if they are prone to seizures before being vaccinated? Whether it is predictable is not so relevant- as most kids are NOT prescreened and receiving a vaccine and sufferering a seizure can you make you more likely to be prone next time.

The other quotes were just to show that there is strong link to seizures if even the CDC will mention it.

As for risk, it is not up to you to decide what is big enough risk to worry about or not. That's for every parent to decide.

[Achas Veachas]

Have you ever had any of your kids checked to see if they are prone to seizures before being vaccinated?.

Did you have your kid checked for allergies before giving him dairy/nuts/eggs/whatever?

[aygart]

Did you have your kid checked for allergies before giving him dairy/nuts/eggs/whatever?

of course not, they won't have allergies without taking vaccines:

[wayfe]

Did you have your kid checked for allergies before giving him dairy/nuts/eggs/whatever?

And your point is? That all parents are irresponsible?

With food allergies there is a lot more info on hand and you know more of what you're dealing with. And yes, most parents wait until a baby isn't quite so vulnerable before intoducing a child to small amounts of these foods.

[Achas Veachas]

My point is that a child is a lot more likely to have a food allergy, and the consequences can be a lot worse than a seizure, yet almost no one checks before they all just give and keep an eye out for any sign of danger so why would anyone refuse a vaccine just because they didn't check if their child is the one-in-a-thousand who may develop an allergic reaction?

Tl;dr: Giving your child milk is a bigger risk than vaccinating him...

[wayfe]

My point is that a child is a lot more likely to have a food allergy, and the consequences can be a lot worse than a seizure, yet almost no one checks before they all just give and keep an eye out for any sign of danger so why would anyone refuse a vaccine just because they didn't check if their child is the one-in-a-thousand who may develop an allergic reaction?

Because vaccines are an unknown entity without enough studies done to test their short term and long term effects.

If you want to know why parents would give allergenic foods to their kids without testing them- that's a different issue.

[Achas Veachas]

Because vaccines are an unknown entity without enough studies done to test their short term and long term effects.

Please... Your car is a much more "unknown entity" than vaccines that have been studies extensively for decades. My "certainty" that my car's brakes won't fail tomorrow ch"v is a lot smaller than the certainty that the vaccines i got as a kid won't have some mysterious "long term effect". Yet I will probably not think twice before strapping my son into the car tomorrow, and neither will you probably...

If you want to know why parents would give allergenic foods to their kids without testing them- that's a different issue.

No, I think I DO know, it's for the same reason that reasonable people give their children vaccines without worrying too much about seizures....

[aygart]

The other quotes were just to show that there is strong link to seizures if even the CDC will mention it.

that is only if we subscribe to the conspiracy theories that you do. Otherwise it just means that there is a slight link.

[aygart]

Thanks, I was beginning to think that I was the one with reading comprehension issues...

I've had this question of reading comprehension each time someone pops in with these quotes against vaccines. The two seem correlated.

[Achas Veachas]

I've had this question of reading comprehension each time someone pops in with these quotes against vaccines. The two seem correlated.

So now NOT vaccinating causes reading comprehension issues?

[aygart]

So now NOT vaccinating causes reading comprehension issues?

well, I guess after all the horrible things they try to sneak into you they must have done unintentionally good side effects.