Poll

Would you buy a German car?

Yes
26 (36.1%)
No
46 (63.9%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Author Topic: German Cars  (Read 22195 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Offline yungermanchik

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2023, 12:50:33 PM »
Mostly agreed. I have a Bosch 12V drill and impact driver. Those are my go-to for small household needs. I needed a circular saw and wanted a more powerful drill, and opted for the Makita 18V brushless. With the advancement in battery technology, there are smaller and lighter batteries available. For a non-pros I think smaller batteries might be better, as they make the tools easier to handle and there's less usage. Some tools (such as a circular saw) really do need more powerful batteries.
I'll bite.

One of the considerations in my mind when I purchase tools, is to check the history of the company if it's a German brand. If it (or a predecessor entity) was around in the 1930s and 1940s, I won't buy unless I am ok with the history.
So I assume you went with the family's version of the history:
Not a car company, but another famous German brand:
https://www.bosch.com/stories/resistance-to-hitler-bosch-circle/
https://www.bosch.com/stories/robert-bosch-liberal-politics-and-social-responsibility/
Bosch took full advantage of the nazi regime and forced labor. Braun on the other hand supposedly helped save people from deportation and was anti nazi Germany.
The jury is still out on Bosch. He seems to have strong resistance to the Nazi regime.. until a point, whereupon he caved.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bosch#Third_Reich
Some claim he used his factory to save as many of the "laborers" as he could, but it is still unclear.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2023, 12:52:04 PM »
So I assume you went with the family's version of the history:

I might have bought it at a point when that was the only version I saw. It was definitely long before May 2021.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2023, 01:59:35 PM »
In evaluating Bosch I think it might make sense to actually evaluate the main shareholder: https://www.bosch-stiftung.de/en/who-we-are
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2024, 08:44:29 PM »
Would you wear a Junkers watch? I'm very much leaning toward "hell no", but I really like the look of their Bauhaus watches lol.

All the evidence points to Hugo Junkers (the company's founder) himself refusing to work with the Nazis and likely dying for that, but the fact remains that Junkers eventually manufactured most of the Luftwaffe's aircraft during WWII.

Quote
After the 1933 Machtergreifung, the Nazi seizure of power, Hermann Göring (Goering), the new Reichskommissar of Aviation, requested Junkers and his businesses aid in the German re-armament. Junkers declined, to which the Nazi’s responded to by demanding ownership of all patents and market shares from his remaining companies under threat of imprisonment on the grounds of High Treason. Eventually, to ensure the safety of his wife, Therese, and their many children, Junkers agreed. By that point, however, the Nazi’s had lost patience and confined Junkers under house arrest for a year, during which time he founded the Junkers Research Institute Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung (GmbH is a company license in Germany, similar to an LLC) in Munich, Germany.

…And the Tragic Fall of Hugo Junkers
On his 76th birthday, February 3, 1935, the Nazis visited Hugo Junkers for one last round of “negotiations” to persuade him to give them the rights to his companies. Though there is no official record of how it is known that Hugo Junkers died in his home that day. Very shortly after, his wife Therese ceded all control of the Junkers companies and patents to the Nazis for a tiny fraction of their worth.

Hugo Junkers was a scholar, a pacifist, and a family man, who contributed innumerable technological advances to aviation and the world at large died a prisoner in his own home, only to have his wife exploited through Nazi fear tactics, and his legacy overrun by the WWII aircraft that still bore his name. Even while being forced into creating military aircraft, Hugo Junkers had focused on protecting the pilots and flight crew from enemy fire, instead of dealing maximum damage to the Allied soldiers. His advances in metallurgy and mechanical engineering have helped to make aviation safer, faster, and more efficient, and his legacy deserves to live on as a mirror of the man he truly was, not as the distorted image the Nazis built using his technology.
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2024, 08:45:11 PM »
And yes, the watches are actually made by a division of the aviation company, not just a name that's slapped on.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #106 on: March 17, 2024, 09:40:04 PM »
Would you wear a Junkers watch? I'm very much leaning toward "hell no", but I really like the look of their Bauhaus watches lol.

All the evidence points to Hugo Junkers (the company's founder) himself refusing to work with the Nazis and likely dying for that, but the fact remains that Junkers eventually manufactured most of the Luftwaffe's aircraft during WWII.

Based on your quote, it seems like he had nothing to do with the company by the time WW2 started, or even by the time of Kristallnacht. It was a Nazi owned company.

I guess you can try to read some of the books they sell to help you make up your mind. https://en.junkers.de/Books/
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #107 on: March 17, 2024, 09:44:10 PM »
Based on your quote, it seems like he had nothing to do with the company by the time WW2 started, or even by the time of Kristallnacht. It was a Nazi owned company.

I guess you can try to read some of the books they sell to help you make up your mind. https://en.junkers.de/Books/

Right. But regardless if the owner's behavior, at the end if the day Junkers was a Nazi company critical to the war effort. I don't think I want to wear their name on my wrist.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #108 on: March 17, 2024, 09:47:57 PM »
Right. But regardless if the owner's behavior, at the end if the day Junkers was a Nazi company critical to the war effort. I don't think I want to wear their name on my wrist.

I guess you might have misread my post. I was saying that regardless the founder's philosophy and actions, by the time the Nuremberg laws were put in place, or shortly thereafter, it was Nazi owned.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #109 on: March 17, 2024, 09:58:46 PM »
I guess you might have misread my post. I was saying that regardless the founder's philosophy and actions, by the time the Nuremberg laws were put in place, or shortly thereafter, it was Nazi owned.

Got it. Basically reinforcing my feelings to stop considering a Junkers...
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #110 on: Yesterday at 09:21:37 PM »
Got it. Basically reinforcing my feelings to stop going bonkers for a Junkers...

FTFM

Offline ExGingi

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Re: German Cars
« Reply #111 on: Yesterday at 10:02:39 PM »
נקוט האי כללא בידך:

If a German company predates WW2, then

If there was an ownership change in the 30's or 40's - it was for antisemitic reasons (or political reasons related to Nazi ideology).

If there was no ownership change, look into the history of the owner. Was he a collaborator, or someone like Oskar Schindler.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan