Topic Wiki

Roundup Of Routes Where Kosher Meals Are Served By North American Airlines - http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/89484

Here's a google docs where people could input their inflight kashrus experience :
http://kshr.us/KosherMeals 


AA KSML availability:

-Most domestic routes where meals are served (in J or F)
-Flights to Europe or Asia in all classes.
-Flights to Belo Horizonte, Brasilia, Porto Alegre, Recife, Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, Sao Paulo, Brazil in all classes.
-Flights to Asuncion, Paraguay in all classes.
-Flights to Buenos Aires, Argentina in all classes.
-Flights to Santiago, Chile in all classes.
-Flights to Montevideo, Uruguay in all classes.

UA KSML availability:

-EWR-SFO in J
-EWR-LAX in J
-BOS-SFO in J
-Flights between the US mainland or Guam and Hawaii in J or F.
-Flights to Europe or Asia in all classes.
-Flights to Argentina, Brazil, Chile and Peru in all classes.

Please Include:
Airline:
Class:
Route:
Caterer:
Hechsher:
Flight date:
Meal in pics:
Stogel-Hermolis Scale Score (1-10):

Stogel-Hermolis Scale:
1. Inedible, wouldn't feed to a dog. (Stogel [long-life])
2. Disgusting, would only eat if starving
3. Barely edible, would only eat if very hungry
4. Below average, but would eat if hungry (Stogel [fresh-frozen])
5. Average/typical KSML, would eat if hungry (Borenstein?)
6. Above average KSML (Borenstein?)
7. A good KSML, might even eat if not hungry.
8. A very good KSML
9. An excellent KSML, could pass for something served in a decent restaurant.
10. Top of the line KSML, would be happy eating this at a decent restaurant. (Hermolis)


AirlineRouteClassMeal
BALHR-JFKJDinner
BALHR-PRGJBreakfast
CM           TGU-PTY          J              Lunch
CM           PTY-JK          J              Dinner
CO           EWR-TLV          BF              Dinner
COEWR-TLVBFBreakfast
COHNL-EWRBFDinner
COHNL-EWRBFBreakfast
COIAH-HNLBFLunch
COIAH-HNLBFSnack
LHFRA-VCEJSnack
LXORD-ZRHFDinner
LXZRH-TLVYDinner
SNBRU-VCEJBreakfast
SNTLV-BRUJDinner
SNTLV-BRUJBreakfast
TPJFK-LISYDin/Break
TPLIS-JFKYDinner



United Airlines
USA-Australia routes (economy): Koshair, O-U, Hamotzi, CS.
USA-Sydney  (First): Regal - meat and chicken meals.
Australia-USA routes (economy): Lewis Continental, K-A, Hamotzi, CY.
LH EWR-FRA Y Regal Chicken
LH MUC-EWR Y Sohar Hot meat meal and cold sandwich
LH FRA-VIE C Sohar Cold Meal (fish)
OS VIE TLV C VIE Local Co (hechser Rabbi Schwartz) Hot
US TLV PHL C Hamasbia
UA(CO) EWR-TLV Y Regal Beef meal (2010)
SA JNB-CPT-JNB Y Hot Meal from Joburg Beth Din
MN(BA) JNB-VFA Meal from Joburg Beth Din
SQ JFK-FRA Suites very poor Borenstein meal, labeled business class, chicken, no real dishes, very little food.
EK SYD-AKL  F    Lewis, no hot meal.
NZ AKL-LAX  Y    Gray's deli, fish meal.
TK CPT-IST  J/Y    Norries Caterers - CPT Beth Din - Milk Snack (Sandwich & Muffin CPT-JNB leg) Meat Dinner, Milk breakfast
« Last edited by zow on May 22, 2019, 02:37:01 PM »

Author Topic: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread  (Read 458898 times)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Re: BEWARE: Lufthansa "Kosher" from FRA loses kashrus.
« Reply #2120 on: March 28, 2019, 12:20:16 PM »


I like this scale, and nominate it to be used as the official KSML ranking scale, henceforth to be known as the ZOW Stogel-Hermolis Scale, also abbreviated as the Stogel-Hermolis Scale or ZSH Scale.
+1
Should be kept to either the "Zow", or "ZSH" if you insist.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: BEWARE: Lufthansa "Kosher" from FRA loses kashrus.
« Reply #2121 on: March 28, 2019, 12:23:44 PM »
+1
Should be kept to either the "Zow", or "ZSH" if you insist.

"Zow" gives credit, but doesn't tell the entire story. I think we should stick to "ZSH". Maybe someone should add a poll.
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Offline shapsam

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Re: BEWARE: Lufthansa "Kosher" from FRA loses kashrus.
« Reply #2122 on: March 28, 2019, 12:30:17 PM »
I like this scale, and nominate it to be used as the official KSML ranking scale, henceforth to be known as the ZOW Stogel-Hermolis Scale, also abbreviated as the Stogel-Hermolis Scale or ZSH Scale.

Some examples of possible uses:

TK KSML ranks 8.5 on the ZOW Stogel-Hermolis Scale.
Borenstein KSML ranks 5 on the Stogel-Hermolis Scale.
Weiss (or whatever they renamed to) ranks 6.7 on the ZSH Scale.
Totally disagree about TK KSML, I think Borenstein beats it.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: BEWARE: Lufthansa "Kosher" from FRA loses kashrus.
« Reply #2123 on: March 28, 2019, 12:36:50 PM »
Totally disagree about TK KSML, I think Borenstein beats it.

Al Taam V'reiach..

TK KSML isn't frozen, it's fresh, with fresh vegetables, crunchy cucumbers, etc. Borenstein is ALLWAYS previously frozen.

That being said, I wasn't trying to make an absolute judgment as to where these meals should be ranked, but was rather giving a rough idea of how the scale (in various alternative forms) should be used in sentences, with my personal off-the-cuff opinion.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline zow

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2124 on: March 28, 2019, 12:52:42 PM »
From a psychometric standpoint, we are fortunate to have a scale with endpoints (anchors) on which we seem to have pretty wide agreement. 

I suspect we can use the polling function to collect our ratings of other frequently encountered KSMLs, leading to average scores.   Whether the scale is linear or ordinal is up to its developers, i.e., all of us. That is, is the difference between a 2 and a 3 the same as that between a 7 and an 8?  I would suggest that our minds probably treat scale as linear, so probably yes, 2-3 is the same difference as 7-8.


Offline Dan

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2125 on: March 28, 2019, 01:04:23 PM »
How's this?

1. Inedible, wouldn't feed to a dog. (Stogel)
2. Disgusting, would only eat if starving
3. Barely edible, would only eat if very hungry
4. Below average, but would eat if hungry
5. Average/typical KSML, would eat if hungry (Borenstein?)
6. Above average KSML
7. A good KSML, might even eat if not hungry.
8. A very good KSML
9. An excellent KSML, could pass for something served in a decent restaurant.
10. Top of the line KSML, would be happy eating this at a decent restaurant. (Hermolis)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2126 on: March 28, 2019, 01:06:50 PM »
How's this?

1. Inedible, wouldn't feed to a dog. (Stogel)
2. Disgusting, would only eat if starving
3. Barely edible, would only eat if very hungry
4. Below average, but would eat if hungry
5. Average/typical KSML, would eat if hungry (Borenstein?)
6. Above average KSML
7. A good KSML, might even eat if not hungry.
8. A very good KSML
9. An excellent KSML, could pass for something served in a decent restaurant.
10. Top of the line KSML, would be happy eating this at a decent restaurant. (Hermolis)
Nice
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Offline MeirS

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2127 on: March 28, 2019, 01:07:15 PM »
How's this?

1. Inedible, wouldn't feed to a dog. (Stogel)
2. Disgusting, would only eat if starving
3. Barely edible, would only eat if very hungry
4. Below average, but would eat if hungry
5. Average/typical KSML, would eat if hungry (Borenstein?)
6. Above average KSML
7. A good KSML, might even eat if not hungry.
8. A very good KSML
9. An excellent KSML, could pass for something served in a decent restaurant.
10. Top of the line KSML, would be happy eating this at a decent restaurant. (Hermolis)
I would put Borenstien at #4

Offline ExGingi

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2128 on: March 28, 2019, 01:08:42 PM »
I would put Borenstien at #4
+1

Weiss (or whatever they were renamed) at 5 on the ZSH Scale.

There's no accommodation for that in the scale, but I think that both Hermolis and Weiss actually care and listen to KSML consumer feedback, which is a significant factor.

One might also assume that anything rated 3 or below probably has excellent Kashrus certification, anything above that is AYLOR.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 01:46:17 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2129 on: March 28, 2019, 01:16:19 PM »
How's this?

1. Inedible, wouldn't feed to a dog. (Stogel)
2. Disgusting, would only eat if starving
3. Barely edible, would only eat if very hungry
4. Below average, but would eat if hungry
5. Average/typical KSML, would eat if hungry (Borenstein?)
6. Above average KSML
7. A good KSML, might even eat if not hungry.
8. A very good KSML
9. An excellent KSML, could pass for something served in a decent restaurant.
10. Top of the line KSML, would be happy eating this at a decent restaurant. (Hermolis)

SU KSML 2 or 3?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline zow

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2130 on: March 28, 2019, 01:24:44 PM »
I like Dan’s additions.

With a 1-10 scale, the midpoint is 5.5. I actually like it this way, because an “typical” meal (e.g., Borenstein) has an absolute score that is below the midpoint.  There is a “face validity” there, as most of us lean toward negative feelings toward KSML in general.   


Offline davidrotts63

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2131 on: March 28, 2019, 02:24:02 PM »
Never realized I was the only one who thought Borenstein is quite alright.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline Dan

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2132 on: March 28, 2019, 02:32:36 PM »
Never realized I was the only one who thought Borenstein is quite alright.
It's a 5 on a KSML scale, which is a 1 on a restaurant scale.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline momo

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2133 on: March 28, 2019, 02:34:09 PM »
Never realized I was the only one who thought Borenstein is quite alright.
Ive had it quite a few times, and honestly not that bad. Blintzes were actually good, beef stew ok.

Offline Dan

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2134 on: March 28, 2019, 02:36:32 PM »
Ive had it quite a few times, and honestly not that bad. Blintzes were actually good, beef stew ok.
I've said many time that the blintzes are their best dish.
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Offline zow

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2135 on: March 28, 2019, 02:39:20 PM »
Wiki updated with Stogel-Hermolis Scale and a request for KSML reports to include scale rating.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2136 on: March 28, 2019, 02:41:20 PM »
Ive had it quite a few times, and honestly not that bad. Blintzes were actually good, beef stew ok.
I've said many time that the blintzes are their best dish.
I found the beef stew somewhere around a 7-8, something I'd eat at home. Didn't care for the blitzes, but their other meals/Regal meals I'd rate 6-7
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Offline Dan

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2137 on: March 28, 2019, 02:45:33 PM »
I found the beef stew somewhere around a 7-8, something I'd eat at home. Didn't care for the blitzes, but their other meals/Regal meals I'd rate 6-7
Do you normally like blintzes?
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Offline Dan

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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2138 on: March 28, 2019, 02:46:01 PM »
Should the ratings system have its own thread?
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Re: KSML (Kosher Airline Meals) Master Thread
« Reply #2139 on: March 28, 2019, 02:47:04 PM »
I've said many time that the blintzes are their best dish.

So for someone that doesn't care for sweet dishes (other than desert), it would rank bad if that was the meal option.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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