Author Topic: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?  (Read 6719 times)

Offline Drago

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What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« on: January 22, 2013, 12:46:40 PM »
I'll be joining an FT initiated mtg tomorrow in TLV.
As of now, some LY reps are supposed to be there.

Any specific questions you'd like me to ask? As of now, I'm going to question them about why AA appears to have problems booking their flights.

Anything else?

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 12:49:43 PM »
Why won't they allow F awards for AAdvantage miles?

When will true lie-flat seats come to LY.  All of their North America competitors offer that in J.

Why charge YQ to North America when UA/US do not.  It causes Americans to ignore Matmid while UA and US make billions off their frequent flyer programs without the need for offputting YQ.

Will LY add MIA, ORD, or SFO before AA/US and UA add them or wait until afterward?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Drago

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 12:55:09 PM »
Also, what do you folks think of these ideas by an FT poster for how to fix LY?
(The following are snippets of his posts, so they aren't coherent if read as a whole since he was responding to questions)

In the past, LY existed because it was state owned and therefore did not need to really compete in the marketplace. Since privatization the new owners, the Borovich family, were not able to remove the inefficient vestiges of EL AL's state owned corporate enterprise culture and position it for fierce private sector competition that is focused on the consumer.

Given EL AL's over $50 million loss in 2011 and their projected loss for 2012 I don't think the Borovich family will be able to keep this company afloat for much longer. Based upon this belief, I have lined up investors and we will purchase the assets of the airline from the bankruptcy trustee, should it collapse, and reconstitute EL AL into an efficient modern customer service oriented operation.

break

I know the problems associated with EL AL very well. Basically, should EL AL go bankrupt, it would be relatively easy to reconstitute the airline. I would purchase its assets ( mainly facilities, slots, etc) from the bankruptcy trustee, and form a new corporation under Israeli law. Though named EL AL Israel Airlines, this new entity would be free from all of the old EL AL's debt obligations, including union contracts.

I would then invite any and all former EL AL employees to apply for jobs with the new EL AL. It goes without saying that I would NEVER hire any of their current managers, including but not limited to Shkedy and Saadon.

From there I would bring in someone I know in the industry who is an excellent operations manager to map out streamlined and rational operations.

break

As far as the fleet is concerned, I would keep all of the 737's for short haul/European routes, replace the 744's with A380's 1 for 1, and replace all of the 767's and 777's 1 for 1 with A330s. The hard product on the entire long haul fleet would be standardized with lie flat seats in business, semi-enclosed cabins in First (First will only be on the A380s) and an advanced AVOD system. The frequent flier program and website will emulate what United has, and I will both expand codeshare agreements and get EL AL into an alliance; preferably OneWorld.

Since the new EL AL will have streamlined management, efficient aircraft, and the ability to compensate all employees at market rates (and not more) our yields will go up and we will be able to open more routes such as San Francisco and perhaps even Buenos Aires. We will turn TLV into as much of a connecting hub as possible by offering and promoting east/west fares with a stop in TLV and scheduling arrivals/departures accordingly so as to be able to do so.

break

1. Obviously not being able to overly the Middle East to the Far East adds time to the sectors and fuel costs, however most, if not all, of LY's far east routes they currently fly using a mix of 744/777/767 are profitable. If we utilize more efficient A330's and, on occasion, A380's the yields will be higher and the routes will be even more profitable, thereby negating somewhat, the added fuel and sector time costs.

2. The government will most certainly allow LY to go bankrupt. It was Netanyahu who, as finance minister, spearheaded privatization. When I spoke with Danny Saadon in New York he told me that part of the problem why the unions will not negotiate in earnest is their belief that the government will never let the company go bankrupt, a belief that he and I both agree is wrong for the above reason.

3. If the government allows LY to go bankrupt, the assets of the company will be in the hands of the bankruptcy trustee who will sell them to the highest bidder in order to pay out the creditors. The bankrupt EL AL legal entity will be no more. My investors and I will create a new legal entity, call it EL AL, incorporate as much of EL AL's assets into the new legal entity as possible, and reconstitute a new airline. The only thing that will remain is the EL AL name, the facilities/slots we buy from the old entity, and any employees we hire. However, should the government step in and try to revive the old EL AL entity, all of this will be mute, though I don't think that will be the case. Consequently, Chaim Katz will have no say whatsoever in the new legal entity.

break

This is proprietary information which I will not disclose in a public forum but what I will say is that EL AL's current net worth, when you subtract liabilities, is around $35 million. This $35 million figure includes equity in some of the aircraft they own (primarily the 772's) none of which I want, except for the 738's.

As far as my investor pool is concerned, it consists of American Jews and American Evengelical Christians. None of them are investing for the purpose of making a profit. They are all investing because they believe, as do I, that the State of Israel needs a viable national carrier and we do not want to see the EL AL name go by the wayside as so many long standing carriers have in recent years.

As far as management is concerned, we will have at minimum 60% less VP's and managers. We will close down many offices (particularly in Europe) where activities are redundant and quite frankly can be handled out of TLV, London, or Paris. I will be the CEO of the new EL AL and will leave my post after 4 years by which time I expect to have accomplished most, if not all, of what I want for this new carrier.

During and after the start up phase, I plan to rely heavily on the regulars in this forum to not only advise on the specific seats and IFE to purchase, but on Matmid benefits, flight schedules, and personal observations of what the old EL AL did right so we could replicate it, and what the old EL AL did wrong so we can avoid it. I will be personally in touch with the frequent posters here and will always be accessible to them.




Offline Drago

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 12:56:32 PM »
And here is s/o else's ideas for routing fixes.

Just for the intellectual exercise, I was mulling the viability of a TLV-based OpenSkies/CWLCY-type airline, preferably with a similar relationship to BA, to go head-to-head with LY and others for premium pax. There is a surprising number of them, and LY's hard and soft products are totally uncompetitive. In the long run, LCCs may well kill off LY's ability to compete for Y pax too on EU routes, but Arkia might be able to adapt.

This is especially interesting in the light of the withdrawal of long-haul bizclass seating on all routes except LX/ZRH and BA/LHR. On the latter, there is no Prem Econ or First any more, as well as complaints about using T1, leading to a massive reduction in overall premium seating availability. On the former, they often switch equipment to a short-haul product from the usual A330 and are rumoured to also be about to do so permanently.

The route network I was toying with might be to LCY (bolstering BA's premium capacity for point-to-point) and ORY (attacking LY and AF), scheduled to connect to OpenSkies/CWLCY transatlantics, also maybe places like FRA and MXP to compete with LH/AZ point-to-point and connect to AA flights to destinations not served directly in the USA but with large Jewish/business/Christian Zionist communities, like MIA, BOS, ORD. I imagine AA would prefer to put people on their own metal transatlantic and just have the last leg with a BA subsidiary, than switch people to the LY codeshare.

Also potentially could look at NBO>JNB and ADD>BOM, and a smattering of shorter biz and oligarch routes around SE Europe and the Caspian.

Would use A318s or the new CS110ER, 32-36 fully-flat bed seats, or a split of 16-18 beds and 32-36 cradle seats. All this actually does is make up for BA's shortfall to London of about 70 premium seats a day, and go head to head with everyone else on other routes for high-end punters.

I did some basic costings and worked out that, charging no premium at all above LY's bizclass price, you'd need something like a 60% load factor to break even.

We had in mind that you'd get a lot of it off the ground in the way that BA's CWLCY did, by forward-selling a big block of tickets to the likely largest customers, and by being part of an alliance, with suitable insurances in place, if the airline goes kaput they will always use them on another routing.

Anyway, just a fun exercise with a couple of geeky plane spotter mates, but food for thought...

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 12:57:12 PM »
Why won't they allow F awards for AAdvantage miles?

When will true lie-flat seats come to LY.  All of their North America competitors offer that in J.

Why charge YQ to North America when UA/US do not.  It causes Americans to ignore Matmid while UA and US make billions off their frequent flyer programs without the need for offputting YQ.

Will LY add MIA, ORD, or SFO before AA/US and UA add them or wait until afterward?
Will do

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 01:18:56 PM »
And here is s/o else's ideas for routing fixes.

Just for the intellectual exercise, I was mulling the viability of a TLV-based OpenSkies/CWLCY-type airline, preferably with a similar relationship to BA, to go head-to-head with LY and others for premium pax. There is a surprising number of them, and LY's hard and soft products are totally uncompetitive. In the long run, LCCs may well kill off LY's ability to compete for Y pax too on EU routes, but Arkia might be able to adapt.

This is especially interesting in the light of the withdrawal of long-haul bizclass seating on all routes except LX/ZRH and BA/LHR. On the latter, there is no Prem Econ or First any more, as well as complaints about using T1, leading to a massive reduction in overall premium seating availability. On the former, they often switch equipment to a short-haul product from the usual A330 and are rumoured to also be about to do so permanently.

The route network I was toying with might be to LCY (bolstering BA's premium capacity for point-to-point) and ORY (attacking LY and AF), scheduled to connect to OpenSkies/CWLCY transatlantics, also maybe places like FRA and MXP to compete with LH/AZ point-to-point and connect to AA flights to destinations not served directly in the USA but with large Jewish/business/Christian Zionist communities, like MIA, BOS, ORD. I imagine AA would prefer to put people on their own metal transatlantic and just have the last leg with a BA subsidiary, than switch people to the LY codeshare.

Also potentially could look at NBO>JNB and ADD>BOM, and a smattering of shorter biz and oligarch routes around SE Europe and the Caspian.

Would use A318s or the new CS110ER, 32-36 fully-flat bed seats, or a split of 16-18 beds and 32-36 cradle seats. All this actually does is make up for BA's shortfall to London of about 70 premium seats a day, and go head to head with everyone else on other routes for high-end punters.

I did some basic costings and worked out that, charging no premium at all above LY's bizclass price, you'd need something like a 60% load factor to break even.

We had in mind that you'd get a lot of it off the ground in the way that BA's CWLCY did, by forward-selling a big block of tickets to the likely largest customers, and by being part of an alliance, with suitable insurances in place, if the airline goes kaput they will always use them on another routing.

Anyway, just a fun exercise with a couple of geeky plane spotter mates, but food for thought...


Don't know where to start, but there is actually very little premium traffic to/from TLV.

Oligarch routes don't work. There's not enough traffic, and the oligarchs fly private anyway.

OpenSkies is not a successful airline anyhow.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Chaikel

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 03:13:54 PM »
How does he plan on getting LY into OW?
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Offline SGF

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 04:47:07 PM »
While we're at it, why doesn't LY fly to south America?

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 04:48:20 PM »
While OT, why doesn't LY fly to south America?
They flew to GRU and lost their shirts on it.
They are banned from flying to EZE due to Eichmann IIRC.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 05:03:59 PM »
How does he plan on getting LY into OW?
The same way he plans on buying a bunch of A380 within 4 years.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Chaikel

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 05:06:31 PM »
The same way he plans on buying a bunch of A380 within 4 years.
eBay?
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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 05:11:35 PM »
eBay?
Not worth the paypal fees.  Craigslist
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 06:13:04 PM »
Not worth the paypal fees.  Craigslist
I've tried selling mine on CL. Only one sale so far
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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 06:35:14 PM »
back on topic..
you can only make a first impression ONCE

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 09:15:19 PM »
I would ask why ly is one of the worst in customer relations?

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 09:23:33 PM »
LX/ZRH and BA/LHR. On the latter, there is no Prem Econ or First any more

On both there isn't any W or F.


Classical FlyerTalker who thinks Great Mileage + Great Seat = Great Airline. And it's BS. Not every market has premium traffic, not every 'Oligarch' is willing to pay extra to fly in great comfort premium cabins only account for a portion of a airline revenue, and the most profitable airline in the US is Spirit anyhow.
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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 01:02:40 AM »
Why charge YQ to North America when UA/US do not.  It causes Americans to ignore Matmid while UA and US make billions off their frequent flyer programs without the need for offputting YQ.
Don't forget Delta as well.

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 01:19:13 AM »
I would ask why ly is one of the worst in customer relations?
+1
I'm still waiting for a response to a complaint I submitted, and then followed up via Twitter a few times.
It's been over 2 months now.
They promised me a response today.

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 01:46:31 AM »
I would ask why ly is one of the worst in customer relations?
That's easy.
What do you think hachi babayit baolam means
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Offline smart brit

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Re: What should I ask LY reps during mtg?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 01:59:46 AM »
That's easy.
What do you think hachi babayit baolam means
rofl  :).
But on a serious note they should implement a training program for there stwerds phone reps check in reps etc. Something like Virgin Atlantic etc has put in place