Author Topic: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah  (Read 6512 times)

Offline elikay

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2013, 05:02:14 PM »
There is also shaylos about laundering, stealing and other wrongs the meshulachim do.
Downright NASTY!

BTW the bank does not have to honor any writing that you make on the check.

Offline plane.love

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2013, 05:36:26 PM »
Downright NASTY!

BTW the bank does not have to honor any writing that you make on the check.

Why is that nasty?
This business is very tempting for unscrupulous characters and they mire the waters...


Additionally the money was only given al semach that he will take it in 30 days, otherwise limaphraya its nisgaleh that it was never given.


Someone who writes void in thirty days is more likely to have made that tannai but not for sure, and I am definitely not against writing checks for charity I just remember some interesting shaylos regarding it.

Offline real-brisker

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2013, 07:38:12 PM »
There is also shaylos about laundering, stealing and other wrongs the meshulachim do.

This is how we prevent these things from happening.

Additionally the money was only given al semach that he will take it in 30 days, otherwise limaphraya its nisgaleh that it was never given.
What are you gaining with only giving them 30 days?

Offline Yeki89

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2013, 08:58:15 PM »
Not having a check cashed a year later...
I just had a check of mine cashed 8 months later

Offline real-brisker

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2013, 09:05:56 PM »
Oh. I thought you had some other cheshbonos involved.

Offline Yeki89

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 09:06:53 PM »
Oh. I thought you had some other cheshbonos involved.
Like what?

Offline real-brisker

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2013, 09:08:03 PM »
Not sure :)

Offline elikay

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2013, 09:21:46 PM »
Personally I never give checks unless it is to an established institution, and even then I usually give credit card as it is easier for me to track.
Why is that nasty?
This business is very tempting for unscrupulous characters and they mire the waters...
You relationship with people has to be Chasdehu Vekabdehu meaning you can't look down to every meshuluch as a ganif but you definitely must be careful.
There have been reports of meshulochim washing checks also. Beware.

I believe that case was shown to be actually more sophisticated, where the checks were reprinted using the original check number and signature.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Offline ybeeds

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2013, 03:26:28 PM »
I don't know halacha!!!

But is it wrong to report a stolen $45, b/c if the guy would end up in prison? Who has to absorb the loss? the guy stole, he took the risk of getting busted!
My office buzzes to the JewishMusicStream!!!

Offline elikay

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2013, 03:48:47 PM »
I don't know halacha!!!

But is it wrong to report a stolen $45, b/c if the guy would end up in prison? Who has to absorb the loss? the guy stole, he took the risk of getting busted!
IIRC I know someone who was seriously swindled (guy emptied hotel bar on his reservation) and the Psak he got was that if it'll land the gut in prison then it is for sure a problem. Though I doubt you'll end up in prison over $45

Offline hocker

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2013, 04:33:59 PM »
I don't know halacha!!!

But is it wrong to report a stolen $45, b/c if the guy would end up in prison? Who has to absorb the loss? the guy stole, he took the risk of getting busted!
Have you ever heard of the term Mesirah? Your argument doesn't address that point at all.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2013, 06:27:42 PM »
Personally I never give checks unless it is to an established institution, and even then I usually give credit card as it is easier for me to track. You relationship with people has to be Chasdehu Vekabdehu meaning you can't look down to every meshuluch as a ganif but you definitely must be careful.
I believe that case was shown to be actually more sophisticated, where the checks were reprinted using the original check number and signature.
Giving Tzedaka via CC is not lechatchila at all. the mitzva of givingTzedaks is fulfilled by giving cash or cash equivalents, like a check. A CC is most probably only giving money through the mechanism of Eved Kenani, definitely problematic for matanos laevyonim/ kiddushei isha and not a maasheh nissinas tzedaksh at all.
Of course YMMV  ;)

Offline NY152

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2013, 07:02:32 PM »
Giving Tzedaka via CC is not lechatchila at all. the mitzva of givingTzedaks is fulfilled by giving cash or cash equivalents, like a check. A CC is most probably only giving money through the mechanism of Eved Kenani, definitely problematic for matanos laevyonim/ kiddushei isha and not a maasheh nissinas tzedaksh at all.
Of course YMMV  ;)
Source please, other than your own logic.

Offline Saver2000

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2013, 07:09:22 PM »
Giving Tzedaka via CC is not lechatchila at all. the mitzva of givingTzedaks is fulfilled by giving cash or cash equivalents, like a check. A CC is most probably only giving money through the mechanism of Eved Kenani, definitely problematic for matanos laevyonim/ kiddushei isha and not a maasheh nissinas tzedaksh at all.
Of course YMMV  ;)
Since when is a check considered cash equivalent?

I once heard a shailah - regarding the halachah that you have to pay a worker the same day,  if a check is considered payment.  -
Many times the person can't cash the check bec the bank is closed,  or bec they don't have ID,  etc

Regarding maatonos le'evyonim, I believe most poskim hold that you need to give cash. (unless you're giving to an organization that's going to distribute it for you then maybe its different?  I don't know if the psak that I'm referring to applies to organizations)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2013, 07:12:08 PM »
its way more complicated than a "Source", one must explain the mechanism of a CC transaction and then see where it fits in the sources. Start with the machlokes machaneh ephrayim and imrei bina, nesivos etc re one paying off a cohen for someone else's pidyon haben...
Re matanos laevyonim im just stating my opinion but definitely ask you LOR.
Re giving charity, im pretty certain that most would agree that cash is preferred halachicaly.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2013, 07:13:34 PM »
Since when is a check considered cash equivalent?

I once heard a shailah - regarding the halachah that you have to pay a worker the same day,  if a check is considered payment.  -
Many times the person can't cash the check bec the bank is closed,  or bec they don't have ID,  etc

Regarding maatonos le'evyonim, I believe most poskim hold that you need to give cash. (unless you're giving to an organization that's going to distribute it for you then maybe its different?  I don't know if the psak that I'm referring to applies to organizations)
The consensus of poskim is that for the mitzva of tzedaka a check is ok. A CC is a whole different animal.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2013, 07:13:58 PM »
Debit cards are probably good too

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2013, 07:16:12 PM »
Have you ever heard of the term Mesirah? Your argument doesn't address that point at all.

Sigh. Here we go again... Read my lips:

There. Is. Virtually. No. Actual. "Mesirah". B'zman. Hazeh!!!!

Offline Saver2000

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Re: Warning about giving checks to unknown people collecting tzedakah
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2013, 07:21:29 PM »
The consensus of poskim is that for the mitzva of tzedaka a check is ok. A CC is a whole different animal.
Your talking about a private person that comes knocking on your door collecting for himself?  Or an organization?