zilberman method school in brooklyn?

[bobby]

I'm not sure who's hashkafa you follow, but if you look through the many michtovim seforim from litvishe roshei yeshivos and many chinuch seforim you will see that I'm right.

I think your disagreement is moot. If the yeshiva system was producing many top-notch talmidei chachomim while sacrificing those at the bottom, then we can have the debate. But right now the yeshiva system is not producing these talmidei chachomim while at the same we still manage to lose many at the bottom.

[churnbabychurn]

I think your disagreement is moot. If the yeshiva system was producing many top-notch talmidei chachomim while sacrificing those at the bottom, then we can have the debate. But right now the yeshiva system is not producing these talmidei chachomim while at the same we still manage to lose many at the bottom.

The yeshiva system is creating some talmidei chachomim.

Also, encouraging a child to become a talmid chochom ≠ neglect.

[Galitzyaner]

I couldn't disagree more.
The hashkafa of the litvishe gedolim is that the primary focus should be to grow gedolim. -Not to encourage children to be some arbitrary level of a "good jew" that is currently in fashion.

I guess there are lots of folks out there who see that this "hashkafa" of yours is failing! It's pretty clear to anyone who sees the situation with a clear head, IMHO.
As pirkei avos says: סופה בטלה.

I have been around the block and through the system and I've yet to see this overflow of gadlus you are talking about. Most roshei yeshiva don't even know the basics of Halacha!Only 100 years ago there were gedolim that worked and made their own parnasa this whole "bench warming" thing is very new and directly contrary to our mesora. Just because someone works for a living doesn't make him an am haarets he could be a talmid chacham. And what you say about the chinuch how we make everyone a gadol is also very very new if you recall the story with R' E.M. Bloch where he told someone trying to money launder " My father never told me I have to be a Rosh Yeshiva, he told me I have to bean ehrliche yid"
Gadlus is not measured by how much a person learns or knows it is measured by personal growth and unfortunately in todays standard of chinuch (at least in Lakewood) this is not imparted.

Wow, so well said! +∞!