Topic Wiki

Editor’s note: I know enough about this topic to be dangerous, but I’m not a true expert so please feel free to add to or edit anything in this wiki that will improve it. The FAQs contain many oversimplifications but that is intentional to make the information relatable to the audience. Thanks!

Frequently Asked Questions

What are blockchains and bitcoins and what is the difference?
A blockchain is the fundamental element in a crypto currency system. A blockchain is an accounting ledger. Each block contains a bunch of journal entries (i.e. a chronological record of transactions) that gets encrypted (by miners) but can be downloaded and read by anyone on the network. Why the blockchain ledger is secure and how we can vouch for its integrity is a slightly more advanced topic.

An accounting ledger typically keeps track of money, and a blockchain is no different. But the only type of money that it can accurately track is digital money that lives on the blockchain network. So dollars, euros, etc are out. The digital money that lives on the blockchain is called a crypto currency, and the most well-known one at this time is Bitcoin.

Currently there are a few major blockchain networks: the Bitcoin Network, the Ethereum Network, and the Litecoin Network. Each one has its own currency, which are Bitcoin, Ether, and Litecoin, respectively.

I’m just a simple DDFer and not an accountant + cryptographer + hacker all at the same time. Can you make this a little simpler to understand?
Let’s try an analogy. There is a certain website called Dansdeals.com and it has quite a following. Some of the followers are just users/readers but others are more active and produce value for the website. When they provide value, they earn currency for their work – called “EQP” and “HT”. So we have something we will call the Dansdeals Blockchain Network that is simply a record keeper of various ongoing deals and it issues a native currency that is fractionable (10,000 EQP = 1 HT). This is similar to the Blockchain network recording financial transactions and issuing bitcoins. The ones who work for the network (miners) earn bitcoins and everyone else needs to buy it to participate.

The analogy improves if you imagine that the Dansdeals website visitors have to pay a small amount, let’s say 5 EQP, in order to access a deal or a code that is recorded on the network. If the website has 30,000 followers who love deals, but only 1,000 active members who earn EQP, then you can see that there is a need for a marketplace to be created where you can buy EQP for later use.

Of course, websites are not networks, and this analogy is far from perfect. But useful.

How much is a Bitcoin worth
No one knows. A few people are speculating its worth based on the potential that Bitcoin will one day become a major world currency that people use in their daily lives. Most people though are speculating its worth based on what the next new investor will pay them for it (google “Greater Fool Investing”).

Even if a crypto currency becomes dominant, who says it will be Bitcoin? Maybe it will be Schmitcoin?
This is completely possible. Bitcoin and Ether are the most likely at this point, but their long term survival is not at all guaranteed.

So why all the fuss about Bitcoin? Shouldn’t we wait for Schmitcoin and its cousins to come out?
You could, but you don’t want to ignore how hard it is to start up a network from scratch. It may be that as little as one person can create rival code to compete with the existing digital currencies and blockchains, but one person is not a network. You need a lot of highly technical and motivated people to join you and also to invest their time, energy, and money in making that network run. It’s a highly specialized group of people, and most of the people who would fit that profile are already tied up with an existing network. So it’s not impossible, especially in the long-term, but even if it does happen it would be unlikely to pop up overnight and so Vegas odds for Bitcoin are way shorter.

Let’s go back to the Dansdeals analogy. Imagine that Dansdeals is not the only such website, and there are other websites in existence that provide similar services. For the sake of the analogy let’s call them MMS and OMAAT. They too have big enough followings to survive independently, and even though each one offers a slightly different flavor that differentiates them, anyone on one of the networks could also get their most important needs met on one of the other networks. In this analogy, do you think it’s worth collecting EQP/HT or not? After all, Schmansdeals.com could open up one day and all the business could move there.

The argument for the difficulty of starting up a rival blockchain network is much stronger than in the analogy (especially if we start to include “smart contracts” in the discussion), but the basic idea that you need a critical mass of follows to be successful and compete with existing rivals is the same.

« Last edited by yuneeq on December 25, 2017, 01:05:21 AM »

Author Topic: BitCoin Master Thread  (Read 356953 times)

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5128
  • Total likes: 6394
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1820 on: June 14, 2022, 06:31:55 PM »
We're in the "told you so" phase, where all the pundits and sour grapes who missed on on the last 18 months of opportunity insist they were right all along. Ask me again after everyone's forgotten their passwords. (I seem to remember having written a "crystal ball" post, but maybe it was on a different forum or later deleted)

Take a shot; wild guesses are free. I think it bottoms out below 10k.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5128
  • Total likes: 6394
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Yitzshpitz

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 670
  • Total likes: 55
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1822 on: June 14, 2022, 10:55:09 PM »
Take a shot; wild guesses are free. I think it bottoms out below 10k.

15k

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31016
  • Total likes: 7975
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1823 on: June 14, 2022, 11:01:59 PM »
Take a shot; wild guesses are free. I think it bottoms out below 10k.

Unless regulations/crypto-hacks destroy BTC permanently, it’ll bottom out somewhere then multiply itself over the following year, the lower it falls the more times it’ll multiply itself.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Mordyk

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 4139
  • Total likes: 1029
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Some of this and some of that.
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1824 on: June 14, 2022, 11:29:30 PM »
Unless regulations/crypto-hacks destroy BTC permanently, it’ll bottom out somewhere then multiply itself over the following year, the lower it falls the more times it’ll multiply itself.
Well obviously.  What's the point.

Take a dollar. Turn it into a penny. And then 10x it.
....but it 10x-ed so you must have more.. ::)
#TYH

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8880
  • Total likes: 4047
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1825 on: June 14, 2022, 11:30:26 PM »
Take a shot; wild guesses are free.

12k - I don't think it hits 12k, but I don't think it will go lower.

Quote
I think it bottoms out below 10k.

Closer to $0 or to $9,999?
Visibly Jewish

Offline Ver hut gazugt

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2021
  • Posts: 601
  • Total likes: 611
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New york
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1826 on: June 14, 2022, 11:39:34 PM »
It depends how long the fed continues to tighten. As long as they continue to tighten the price will likely continue fall.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5128
  • Total likes: 6394
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1827 on: June 15, 2022, 02:07:13 AM »
Closer to $0 or to $9,999?

Closer to 10k.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31016
  • Total likes: 7975
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1828 on: June 15, 2022, 07:25:26 AM »
Well obviously.  What's the point.

Take a dollar. Turn it into a penny. And then 10x it.
....but it 10x-ed so you must have more.. ::)

If it goes to 1% of its current value and recovers to 50% that’s 50x, I don’t think it’s dropping that low, but if it does then a recovery like that sounds plausible
to me. The lower it bottoms out the less it’ll recover to within a year, but if you can predict the bottom (which is especially hard with a high-volatility jagged line) there’s a lot of money to be had.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline yos9694

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1911
  • Total likes: 908
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1829 on: June 15, 2022, 08:10:02 AM »
Take a shot; wild guesses are free. I think it bottoms out below 10k.

That would destroy BTC permanently. I calculated the point of no return a while back at 13k or so.

Offline R.A.T.

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2020
  • Posts: 87
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile

Offline Ver hut gazugt

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2021
  • Posts: 601
  • Total likes: 611
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New york
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1831 on: June 15, 2022, 07:17:40 PM »
That would destroy BTC permanently. I calculated the point of no return a while back at 13k or so.
how did you make that calculation? You bring up a good point, the more you reach scale and fail the harder it is to rebound.

Offline yos9694

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1911
  • Total likes: 908
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1832 on: June 15, 2022, 10:39:09 PM »
how did you make that calculation? You bring up a good point, the more you reach scale and fail the harder it is to rebound.

Based on projected node shutdown when operations exceed rewards

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15091
  • Total likes: 2437
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1833 on: June 15, 2022, 10:46:07 PM »
It's worthless and will ultimately hit zero though it may not happen any time soon
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17712
  • Total likes: 7967
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Mark Twain

  • Dansdeals Bronze Elite
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 32
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: USA
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1835 on: June 23, 2022, 12:07:18 AM »
I find it interesting that all the main reasons people claim bitcoin is a good investment are being proven otherwise.
1. Hedge gainst inflation - seems to be going down as inflation goes up
2. good store of value "digital gold"- gold has consistently gone up and doesn't yoyo 60% in 6 month
3. decentralized  currency-  they are working on regulating it
seems just like gambling to me, you can win big if you are lucky or lose big but you can't possibly consider it investing.

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 828
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1836 on: June 23, 2022, 02:30:43 PM »

"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18460
  • Total likes: 14637
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1837 on: June 23, 2022, 05:52:11 PM »


I am one of those who doesn't understand this. Care to explain?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 828
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1838 on: June 23, 2022, 06:09:27 PM »
I am one of those who doesn't understand this. Care to explain?

Best explained by Ludvig von Mises in Inflation: An Unworkable Fiscal Policy

Quote
There is nowadays a very reprehensible, even dangerous, semantic confusion that makes it extremely difficult for the non-expert to grasp the true state of affairs. Inflation, as this term was always used everywhere and especially in this country, means increasing the quantity of money and bank notes in circulation and the quantity of bank deposits subject to check. But people today use the term "inflation" to refer to the phenomenon that is an inevitable consequence of inflation, that is the tendency of all prices and wage rates to rise. The result of this deplorable confusion is that there is no term left to signify the cause of this rise in prices and wages... As you cannot talk about something that has no name, you cannot fight it.

Overall, I would agree that Bitcoin isn't an inflation hedge in the sense that some people assume it is. If you are looking for something that will "hedge" against the inflation caused by an intentionally inflationary system, while still remaining completely enmeshed in it- no bitcoin, will not be your answer.

Bitcoin was designed to be an alternative currency with a hard (non-inflatable) supply.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 06:30:19 PM by wayfe »
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
— Richard Feynman

Offline yos9694

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 1911
  • Total likes: 908
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #1839 on: June 23, 2022, 10:18:26 PM »
Correct, bitcoin is not an inflation hedge. It is non-inflationary. There's an important distinction because bitcoin is not operating as a currency currently