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Editor’s note: I know enough about this topic to be dangerous, but I’m not a true expert so please feel free to add to or edit anything in this wiki that will improve it. The FAQs contain many oversimplifications but that is intentional to make the information relatable to the audience. Thanks!

Frequently Asked Questions

What are blockchains and bitcoins and what is the difference?
A blockchain is the fundamental element in a crypto currency system. A blockchain is an accounting ledger. Each block contains a bunch of journal entries (i.e. a chronological record of transactions) that gets encrypted (by miners) but can be downloaded and read by anyone on the network. Why the blockchain ledger is secure and how we can vouch for its integrity is a slightly more advanced topic.

An accounting ledger typically keeps track of money, and a blockchain is no different. But the only type of money that it can accurately track is digital money that lives on the blockchain network. So dollars, euros, etc are out. The digital money that lives on the blockchain is called a crypto currency, and the most well-known one at this time is Bitcoin.

Currently there are a few major blockchain networks: the Bitcoin Network, the Ethereum Network, and the Litecoin Network. Each one has its own currency, which are Bitcoin, Ether, and Litecoin, respectively.

I’m just a simple DDFer and not an accountant + cryptographer + hacker all at the same time. Can you make this a little simpler to understand?
Let’s try an analogy. There is a certain website called Dansdeals.com and it has quite a following. Some of the followers are just users/readers but others are more active and produce value for the website. When they provide value, they earn currency for their work – called “EQP” and “HT”. So we have something we will call the Dansdeals Blockchain Network that is simply a record keeper of various ongoing deals and it issues a native currency that is fractionable (10,000 EQP = 1 HT). This is similar to the Blockchain network recording financial transactions and issuing bitcoins. The ones who work for the network (miners) earn bitcoins and everyone else needs to buy it to participate.

The analogy improves if you imagine that the Dansdeals website visitors have to pay a small amount, let’s say 5 EQP, in order to access a deal or a code that is recorded on the network. If the website has 30,000 followers who love deals, but only 1,000 active members who earn EQP, then you can see that there is a need for a marketplace to be created where you can buy EQP for later use.

Of course, websites are not networks, and this analogy is far from perfect. But useful.

How much is a Bitcoin worth
No one knows. A few people are speculating its worth based on the potential that Bitcoin will one day become a major world currency that people use in their daily lives. Most people though are speculating its worth based on what the next new investor will pay them for it (google “Greater Fool Investing”).

Even if a crypto currency becomes dominant, who says it will be Bitcoin? Maybe it will be Schmitcoin?
This is completely possible. Bitcoin and Ether are the most likely at this point, but their long term survival is not at all guaranteed.

So why all the fuss about Bitcoin? Shouldn’t we wait for Schmitcoin and its cousins to come out?
You could, but you don’t want to ignore how hard it is to start up a network from scratch. It may be that as little as one person can create rival code to compete with the existing digital currencies and blockchains, but one person is not a network. You need a lot of highly technical and motivated people to join you and also to invest their time, energy, and money in making that network run. It’s a highly specialized group of people, and most of the people who would fit that profile are already tied up with an existing network. So it’s not impossible, especially in the long-term, but even if it does happen it would be unlikely to pop up overnight and so Vegas odds for Bitcoin are way shorter.

Let’s go back to the Dansdeals analogy. Imagine that Dansdeals is not the only such website, and there are other websites in existence that provide similar services. For the sake of the analogy let’s call them MMS and OMAAT. They too have big enough followings to survive independently, and even though each one offers a slightly different flavor that differentiates them, anyone on one of the networks could also get their most important needs met on one of the other networks. In this analogy, do you think it’s worth collecting EQP/HT or not? After all, Schmansdeals.com could open up one day and all the business could move there.

The argument for the difficulty of starting up a rival blockchain network is much stronger than in the analogy (especially if we start to include “smart contracts” in the discussion), but the basic idea that you need a critical mass of follows to be successful and compete with existing rivals is the same.

« Last edited by yuneeq on December 25, 2017, 01:05:21 AM »

Author Topic: BitCoin Master Thread  (Read 352258 times)

Offline henche

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #180 on: August 08, 2017, 06:41:43 PM »
Because the key would not be a 20th century key. It would be an encrypted digital key that is digitally signed and easily verified as real. Plus the door would report to the blockchain that you used your key to access the apartment.



Ok, so at some point we'll be able to verify more stuff digitally.  But why not use $$?

And what happens to everyone's wealth that is denominated in $$? All poof?

Offline thaber

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #181 on: August 08, 2017, 08:00:34 PM »
Remember tbat if I'm UPS then I collect tons of these coins and need to extract their economic value. It's not efficient to convert them to a different currency all the time. They would pay their workers with these coins, and anyone else who tbey can force to accept them.

On the flip side, if I'm a major manufacturer who does a lot of shipping, I'm going to want to own coins all the time rather than trying to acquire them 'just in time'. So maybe I buy a big bunch all at once, lend them out and ask for repayment in that currency, or charge my buyers for  shipping costs in that currency.

In short, create an economy for it. Until then its not a currency but as you say an escrow. I think that the potential to make economic demand for cryptocurrency exists, that's all. How that will happen is hard to imagine.
What does ups gain from doing this in ETH? smart contracts can be just as easily coded in dollars.
In fact when you return something to Amazon they give you a bar code which ups scans when they pick up. At that moment ups charges Amazon, and Amazon refunds you. Pretty much the same thing.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #182 on: August 08, 2017, 11:12:04 PM »
Ok, so at some point we'll be able to verify more stuff digitally.  But why not use $$?

And what happens to everyone's wealth that is denominated in $$? All poof?

The success of crypto wouldn't erase the USD. No reason why the two can't coexist. It might wipe out a lot of untrustworthy 3rd world currencies.

Also, you can't use USD for these transactions because the blockchain has no way of verifying that dollars changed hands. It can only verify transactions that take place in a currency that has all its history on the chain.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:16:30 PM by hachover »
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #183 on: August 08, 2017, 11:27:26 PM »
What does ups gain from doing this in ETH? smart contracts can be just as easily coded in dollars.
In fact when you return something to Amazon they give you a bar code which ups scans when they pick up. At that moment ups charges Amazon, and Amazon refunds you. Pretty much the same thing.

I mentioned UPS as an easy to understand use case. You may be right that it doesn't really add much value.

Another example that might resonate better is real estate. Say you want to buy a vacation property in Mexico. It can be very difficult to verify property ownership now, and if you're not extremely careful you could end up "buying" land from someone who doesn't actually own it. In some cases authorities will even cooperate with the fraudster. And recording a transaction is also tough - even if you buy it from the rightful owner, the property ownership records aren't always maintained with the highest integrity. If you don't have a well connected local involved at every step you are almost guaranteed to not end up owning the property.

Blockchain can restore integrity to the transaction. And smart contracts can make this transaction easy to do on your own, in a foolproof way, even from long distance. The property ownership record is maintained on the chain, and as soon as you sign over the correct amount of digital currency the chain records the property ownership changing hands.
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Offline henche

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #184 on: August 08, 2017, 11:35:13 PM »
The success of crypto wouldn't erase the USD. No reason why the two can't coexist. It might wipe out a lot of untrustworthy 3rd world currencies.

Also, you can't use USD for these transactions because the blockchain has no way of verifying that dollars changed hands. It can only verify transactions that take place in a currency that has all its history on the chain.

Why can't it verify that it moved dollars from your account to his, just as it verifies moving cryptocurrency? Paypal does this all the time.

Offline henche

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #185 on: August 08, 2017, 11:38:36 PM »
I mentioned UPS as an easy to understand use case. You may be right that it doesn't really add much value.

Another example that might resonate better is real estate. Say you want to buy a vacation property in Mexico. It can be very difficult to verify property ownership now, and if you're not extremely careful you could end up "buying" land from someone who doesn't actually own it. In some cases authorities will even cooperate with the fraudster. And recording a transaction is also tough - even if you buy it from the rightful owner, the property ownership records aren't always maintained with the highest integrity. If you don't have a well connected local involved at every step you are almost guaranteed to not end up owning the property.

Blockchain can restore integrity to the transaction. And smart contracts can make this transaction easy to do on your own, in a foolproof way, even from long distance. The property ownership record is maintained on the chain, and as soon as you sign over the correct amount of digital currency the chain records the property ownership changing hands.

That assumes that every title in Mexico is first uploaded to the blockchain, which is fairly impossible.  Even in the U.S., many cities don't have accurate enough records to do that.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #186 on: August 08, 2017, 11:43:49 PM »
Seems like something people want to make it work, with no real need. Yes, you'll find a use, but there's no natural market / demand / need for that
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:49:19 PM by thaber »

Offline henche

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #187 on: August 09, 2017, 12:02:24 AM »
Seems like something people want to make it work, with no real need. Yes, you'll find a use, but there's no natural market / demand / need for that

Well, the majority of bitcoin holdings are just ppl sitting on a big pile, hoping that it becomes money one day. So you can see why they'd promote it.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #188 on: August 09, 2017, 06:48:36 AM »
Well, the majority of bitcoin holdings are just ppl sitting on a big pile, hoping that it becomes money one day. So you can see why they'd promote it.

Spot on
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #189 on: August 09, 2017, 06:52:48 AM »
That assumes that every title in Mexico is first uploaded to the blockchain, which is fairly impossible.  Even in the U.S., many cities don't have accurate enough records to do that.

I don't get this comment. No one will be willing to buy a property that isn't on the blockchain. Owners will have a huge natural incentive to load their properly deeded property (assuming after the thing takes off in the first place)
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #190 on: August 09, 2017, 07:00:35 AM »
Why can't it verify that it moved dollars from your account to his, just as it verifies moving cryptocurrency? Paypal does this all the time.

Paypal is quite slow about this, and can be tricked, which is why they offer insurance protection to their user base. The dollar is a disconnected bearer instrument and they need time to verify that the money you say is in your bank account actually is. If you use a credit card its faster because they trust the bank lending you the money to put up.

 A digital currency lives on the blockchain including all the history of its use in earlier transactions, so there is no delay in verifying that you truly have the money. A transaction is instantly approved and settled with no bank intermediary making a loan to the payor
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #191 on: August 09, 2017, 07:21:02 AM »
If the biggest value of cryptocurrency is contracts, then what's all the value of (legacy) bitcoin about?
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #192 on: August 09, 2017, 08:01:44 AM »
If the biggest value of cryptocurrency is contracts, then what's all the value of (legacy) bitcoin about?

I'm not giving proephetic expertise here. This is all my biased opinion. As I said way further up, I'm long on Ether because I believe it has something tangible to offer that will help with wide adoption.
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #193 on: August 09, 2017, 08:02:09 AM »
I don't get this comment. No one will be willing to buy a property that isn't on the blockchain. Owners will have a huge natural incentive to load their properly deeded property (assuming after the thing takes off in the first place)

How does a property get loaded on the blockchain? You just say it's yours?  Someone is sitting there with a judge for each jurisdiction and lawyers?

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #194 on: August 09, 2017, 08:03:00 AM »
I'm not giving proephetic expertise here. This is all my biased opinion. As I said way further up, I'm long on Ether because I believe it has something tangible to offer that will help with wide adoption.

But maybe shmether will be the smart contact one that takes off

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #195 on: August 09, 2017, 08:07:25 AM »
7
Paypal is quite slow about this, and can be tricked, which is why they offer insurance protection to their user base. The dollar is a disconnected bearer instrument and they need time to verify that the money you say is in your bank account actually is. If you use a credit card its faster because they trust the bank lending you the money to put up.

 A digital currency lives on the blockchain including all the history of its use in earlier transactions, so there is no delay in verifying that you truly have the money. A transaction is instantly approved and settled with no bank intermediary making a loan to the payor

I'm not saying that's a bad idea.  But seems you can get that benefit by carrying a balance in PayPal, without disrupting the global economy by making everyone's money worthless

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #196 on: August 09, 2017, 08:08:52 AM »
How does a property get loaded on the blockchain? You just say it's yours?  Someone is sitting there with a judge for each jurisdiction and lawyers?

Yeah. For something like property loading the initial record of ownership would be a legal process involving whoever had responsibility for record keeping plus lots of officials and jurists. After that first time it would be trivial. There is a lot of low hanging fruit that can be loaded up first which would drive others to jump aboard. And there are a lot of simpler use cases that will come before property.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #197 on: August 09, 2017, 08:09:40 AM »
But maybe shmether will be the smart contact one that takes off

I'm not wearing blinders. I'm aware of the competition, and when shmether comes into existence I'll do my due diligence.
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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #198 on: August 09, 2017, 08:14:45 AM »
I'm not wearing blinders. I'm aware of the competition, and when shmether comes into existence I'll do my due diligence.

What happens top all the people whose title to their land in Mexico is on ether when shmether comes?  And all the money ppl have in ether? It all just goes into the ether?

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Re: BitCoin Master Thread
« Reply #199 on: August 09, 2017, 08:16:27 AM »
I'm not saying that's a bad idea.  But seems you can get that benefit by carrying a balance in PayPal, without disrupting the global economy by making everyone's money worthless

The only reason you can compare carrying a balance in BTC to carrying a balance in Paypal is because its not widely enough accepted. Paypal locks up your money so that the only thing you can do with it in under 3 days is buy goods on the internet, and that's all a balance in Paypal will ever be good for. Think of it as Euros instead. If you frequently go to Brussels for business, do you buy EUR every time and exchange back the excess?
I'm an optimist; but only because life isn't going to give me any other good choices.