Kever Yosef

[jj1000]

If you haven't went rosh chodesh you can't call it dangerous.

You go with 20 armored busses and an army escort of many dozens of soldiers along the way.

I felt totally safe. Was AMAZING!!!

[dudi]

If you haven't went rosh chodesh you can't call it dangerous.

You go with 20 armored busses and an army escort of many dozens of soldiers along the way.

I felt totally safe. Was AMAZING!!!

the problem is that it just feels safe if any Arab does anything the soldiers are allowed to do nothing I have many friends in the Israeli army who told me some of the protocols they have for opening for its crazy

[satturn]

Daven for Menachem Mendel ben Menucha Rachel.

i did. And for the others who PM me.

[satturn]

the problem is that it just feels safe if any Arab does anything the soldiers are allowed to do nothing I have many friends in the Israeli army who told me some of the protocols they have for opening for its crazy

it is true that there are strong protocols. But in an armored bus, surrounded by  IDF and other military intelligence. going in at about 1am with a full curfew on the whole city in effect. Its not that crazy. They did throw stones last night at the buses. But they barely hit, and don't really do anything negative as the buses can withstand much worse.

[elit]

If you haven't went rosh chodesh you can't call it dangerous.

You go with 20 armored busses and an army escort of many dozens of soldiers along the way.

I felt totally safe. Was AMAZING!!!

Sounds like a contradiction. If it's so safe what was so amazing? Can't just be that your davening by important kever there's no dedicated thread to other more safe kevorim of equal or greater importance with people raving about how amazing it is.

Doesn't sound like Judaism to me.

+100

[njmacman]

Thank you Satturn.

[Drago]

When I went, it wasn't for the davening aspect per se, since I'm not a kever kinda guy.
It was to show our 'cousins' that this is an important and holy place for Jews, and we are willing to jump through hoops in order to go and visit.
After all, we see what happened the last time we abandoned it in 2001. The place was burnt almost imm.

[elit]

When I went, it wasn't for the davening aspect per se, since I'm not a kever kinda guy.
It was to show our 'cousins' that this is an important and holy place for Jews, and we are willing to jump through hoops in order to go and visit.
After all, we see what happened the last time we abandoned it in 2001. The place was burnt almost imm.

That's a different point than the others were making, I think. I hear what you're saying but I wonder if it's worth putting yourself and others (ie the soldiers) in sakana

[Joe4007]

When I went, it wasn't for the davening aspect per se, since I'm not a kever kinda guy.
It was to show our 'cousins' that this is an important and holy place for Jews, and we are willing to jump through hoops in order to go and visit.
After all, we see what happened the last time we abandoned it in 2001. The place was burnt almost imm.

Love that statement...

[E-MAN]

Very uplifting experience tonight

Trip report coming tomorrow

Nu?

[chucksterace]

Nu?

Will write it up on my flight Monday.

[Drago]

That's a different point than the others were making, I think. I hear what you're saying but I wonder if it's worth putting yourself and others (ie the soldiers) in sakana

I hear the point about the sakana, but troops are there all the time doing patrols anyhow.

And on a larger scale, certain mitzvos are inherently based on sakanos nefashos, such as killing amalek and settling the land. I'm not saying that this falls into either category, but the potential for sakana doesn't automatically invalidate an action. It depends on the context.

[jj1000]

Sounds like a contradiction. If it's so safe what was so amazing? Can't just be that your davening by important kever there's no dedicated thread to other more safe kevorim of equal or greater importance with people raving about how amazing it is.

You only enjoy things that might kill you

[Drago]

Sounds like a contradiction. If it's so safe what was so amazing? Can't just be that your davening by important kever there's no dedicated thread to other more safe kevorim of equal or greater importance with people raving about how amazing it is.

I will say, it's quite the experience. Going in at 2 in the morning, being on a tight schedule, and being in the middle of Shchem all makes for a unique experience.

BTW, pix from over a hundred years ago of the kever. (FYI, this is an amazing website)
http://www.israeldailypicture.com/2014/02/josephs-tomb-what-difference-century.html

[dudi]

I hear the point about the sakana, but troops are there all the time doing patrols anyhow.

And on a larger scale, certain mitzvos are inherently based on sakanos nefashos, such as killing amalek and settling the land. I'm not saying that this falls into either category, but the potential for sakana doesn't automatically invalidate an action. It depends on the context.

just for your info when you put yourself in sakana you loose zechuyos that you have

[Drago]

just for your info when you put yourself in sakana you loose zechuyos that you have

Correct.

[PlatinumGuy]

just for your info when you put yourself in sakana you loose zechuyos that you have

That's a bit of an over simplification

[PlatinumGuy]

And on a larger scale, certain mitzvos are inherently based on sakanos nefashos, such as killing amalek and settling the land.

Are you seriously hinting that there is an inyan to put yourself in Sakana to Daven? You wannna be a daredevil, fine. But don't tell me there's an inyan

Both of those mitzvos can be accomplished without any Sakana, for example with nuclear weapons.

There is an issur to put oneself in Sakana. לא תנסו את ה' אלוקיכם

[Drago]

Are you seriously hinting that there is an inyan to put yourself in Sakana to Daven? You wannna be a daredevil, fine. But don't tell me there's an inyan

Both of those mitzvos can be accomplished without any Sakana, for example with nuclear weapons.

There is an issur to put oneself in Sakana. לא תנסו את ה' אלוקיכם

Nukes aren't exactly a practical option nowadays. A standing army is still needed, and they need to put themselves into sakana on a daily basis, w/ full halachik import.

Regarding kever yosef, I didn't try to justify it in my comment, I was simply making a general comment. I'm not certain it would be considered a makom sakana in the manner it'd done. (Unlike the way others do it w/o coordinating with the army. Unfortunately, we see what happened last year with the young Breslav man)

[njmacman]

Drago's reason is why my cousin convinced me to go "up" to Har Habayit. It is our land. BTW, my son was there last night.