Author Topic: Call of the Shofar  (Read 15040 times)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2013, 01:31:39 PM »
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V-H7_4bu7zudje6iAbuuDXr-aNlsUViKQHbw8Q1QYjY/edit
I have read this in its entirety.
It is repulsive.
The reason is that none of these mechanisms are employed at COTS at all!
But I have no reason to proseltyze anyone.
To each his own.
To anyone who is interested in facts I will just say: this piece is misleading.
Now do as you wish.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2013, 04:39:56 PM »
I have read this in its entirety.
It is repulsive.
The reason is that none of these mechanisms are employed at COTS at all!

In that case I apologize, someone forwarded it to me and I put it up here as part of the discussion, thanks for clarifying.

Offline bathtub

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2013, 11:04:41 PM »
[ Invalid YouTube link ]

I wander....according to Rabbi Hecht's definitions, is Chabad a cult?   :)

Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2013, 12:05:11 AM »
In that case I apologize, someone forwarded it to me and I put it up here as part of the discussion, thanks for clarifying.
I have no idea whether or not landmark employs such techniques. They very well may.
COTS for sure does not.
COTS has one "organizing value". And that is to help people realize that very often one is not in pure relationship with reality, but that their are experience is scewed based on past formative experiences.
For example: say I'm speaking and someone leaves the room. If I'm in complete relationship with reality then I might say to myself "maybe he needed the bathroom", if Im even thinking anything of it.
If, however, Ive had experiences in my formative years which made me believe that I'm less-than as a person, i might believe that he walked out because I'm not good enough... And i might get very angry.
That's the whole point of COTS: to help people realize that there are real "issues" in their life, and there are things which they experience as "issues" which has to do with what theyhave come to believe about themselves.
Again, it is a "high". Its an unnatural environment. Its specialy designed to elicit this effect.
If someone has not gone to therapy or doesn't follow up with therapy - the experience will simply dissipate with time.

Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2013, 12:11:54 AM »
I wander....according to Rabbi Hecht's definitions, is Chabad a cult?   :)
I totally believe that the Chabad community is a cult with quite some people suffering very badly from all the brainwash and pressure.
But them again, it might not be exclusive to Chabad... It may be true of all ultra-orthodox (findamentalist) groups.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 12:23:46 AM by chamdena »

Offline jaywhy

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2013, 12:51:49 AM »
I have no idea whether or not landmark employs such techniques. They very well may.
COTS for sure does not.
COTS has one "organizing value". And that is to help people realize that very often one is not in pure relationship with reality, but that their are experience is scewed based on past formative experiences.
For example: say I'm speaking and someone leaves the room. If I'm in complete relationship with reality then I might say to myself "maybe he needed the bathroom", if Im even thinking anything of it.
If, however, Ive had experiences in my formative years which made me believe that I'm less-than as a person, i might believe that he walked out because I'm not good enough... And i might get very angry.
That's the whole point of COTS: to help people realize that there are real "issues" in their life, and there are things which they experience as "issues" which has to do with what theyhave come to believe about themselves.
Again, it is a "high". Its an unnatural environment. Its specialy designed to elicit this effect.
If someone has not gone to therapy or doesn't follow up with therapy - the experience will simply dissipate with time.
Very good description.

Offline zale

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2013, 07:20:24 AM »
I totally believe that the Chabad community is a cult with quite some people suffering very badly from all the brainwash and pressure.
But them again, it might not be exclusive to Chabad... It may be true of all ultra-orthodox (findamentalist) groups.

The Chabad community at large does not try to turn other people over to Chabad or even the Rebbe. The daily Itinerary of a Shliach does not include turning people to Chabad, in case you have never met a Shliach before.

Now, I don't know what your background is, but the Litvak community was screaming bloody murder when the Rebbe began the Tefilin campaign. Suddenly now there are Litvak organizations popping up all over doing the same thing.

Chabad is not fundamentalist in any way, shape or form. Chabad is by far the most liberal frum community in terms of acceptance. Litvaks are highly judgemental and suffer from peer pressure to no end.

The ever-shrinking Moshiachist faction that calls themself Chabad is a rogue group of individuals that are becoming more and more irrelevant. If you judge all Chabadniks by the Moshiachist movement then I can judge all Litvaks by the crazies such as Solomon Dwek.

Offline DrDanny

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2013, 07:23:15 AM »
The Chabad community at large does not try to turn other people over to Chabad or even the Rebbe. The daily Itinerary of a Shliach does not include turning people to Chabad, in case you have never met a Shliach before.

Now, I don't know what your background is, but the Litvak community was screaming bloody murder when the Rebbe began the Tefilin campaign. Suddenly now there are Litvak organizations popping up all over doing the same thing.

Chabad is not fundamentalist in any way, shape or form. Chabad is by far the most liberal frum community in terms of acceptance. Litvaks are highly judgemental and suffer from peer pressure to no end.

The ever-shrinking Moshiachist faction that calls themself Chabad is a rogue group of individuals that are becoming more and more irrelevant. If you judge all Chabadniks by the Moshiachist movement then I can judge all Litvaks by the crazies such as Solomon Dwek.
Even in the Moshiachist believers not everyone is crazy, no reason to throw them all under the bus.
Also which litvak organization is having a Tefillan campaign?

Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2013, 07:51:24 AM »
The Chabad community at large does not try to turn other people over to Chabad or even the Rebbe. The daily Itinerary of a Shliach does not include turning people to Chabad, in case you have never met a Shliach before.

Now, I don't know what your background is, but the Litvak community was screaming bloody murder when the Rebbe began the Tefilin campaign. Suddenly now there are Litvak organizations popping up all over doing the same thing.

Chabad is not fundamentalist in any way, shape or form. Chabad is by far the most liberal frum community in terms of acceptance. Litvaks are highly judgemental and suffer from peer pressure to no end.

The ever-shrinking Moshiachist faction that calls themself Chabad is a rogue group of individuals that are becoming more and more irrelevant. If you judge all Chabadniks by the Moshiachist movement then I can judge all Litvaks by the crazies such as Solomon Dwek.
they only SEEM seem minded so that they come off proffessional. In truth, they believe everyone needs to be Chabad because Chabad is the best. They have a systemic superiority complex. They are disdainful towards anyone frum, who is not them i.e. "misnagdim". They are blind believers in the idea that there chasidus is all they need in life, while many people are suffering. They are heavy drinkers.
I can go on and on and on busting the nice "outer appearance" you described.
They are great at pr, but otherwise sickly closed-minded and brainwashed... In my opinion.
And I have meet Shluchim. Secretly theiragenda is to recruit people for the Rebbe. They take pride in this.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 07:54:52 AM by chamdena »

Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2013, 07:51:44 AM »
they only SEEM seem minded so that they come off proffessional. In truth, they believe everyone needs to be Chabad because Chabad is the best. They have a systemic superiority complex. They are disdainful towards anyone frum, who is not them i.e. "misnagdim". They are blind believers in the idea that there chasidus is all they need in life, while many people are suffering. They are heavy drinkers.
I can go on and on and on busting the nice "outer appearance" you described.
They are great at pr, but otherwise sickly closed-minded and brainwashed... In my opinion.

Offline daganster

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »
they only SEEM seem minded so that they come off proffessional. In truth, they believe everyone needs to be Chabad because Chabad is the best. They have a systemic superiority complex. They are disdainful towards anyone frum, who is not them i.e. "misnagdim". They are blind believers in the idea that there chasidus is all they need in life, while many people are suffering. They are heavy drinkers.
I can go on and on and on busting the nice "outer appearance" you described.
They are great at pr, but otherwise sickly closed-minded and brainwashed... In my opinion.
And I have meet Shluchim. Secretly theiragenda is to recruit people for the Rebbe. They take pride in this.

You seem like a very bitter individual with a very low self esteem who feels inferior to Chabad, so I guess that we are better than you. There's nothing wrong with telling yourself  that you are the the best the problem is when you need to put others down when doing so, and that is exactly what you are doing.

Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2013, 08:46:09 AM »
You seem like a very bitter individual with a very low self esteem who feels inferior to Chabad, so I guess that we are better than you. There's nothing wrong with telling yourself  that you are the the best the problem is when you need to put others down when doing so, and that is exactly what you are doing.
very cute!:))

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »
Wow chemdena I was starting to agree with you for your opinions on cots. As for Chabad, it's funny, Shia Hecht gave the first definition of cult that I heard that DOESN'T include Chabad (if I understood him correctly). In any case Chabad had been discussed ad nauseam in the moshiach thread, let's keep this one on topic...

Offline chamdena

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2013, 11:12:33 AM »
Wow chemdena I was starting to agree with you for your opinions on cots. As for Chabad, it's funny, Shia Hecht gave the first definition of cult that I heard that DOESN'T include Chabad (if I understood him correctly). In any case Chabad had been discussed ad nauseam in the moshiach thread, let's keep this one on topic...
thanks. I'll go to that threaD at once!;) lol

Offline zale

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2013, 07:34:17 PM »
they only SEEM seem minded so that they come off proffessional. In truth, they believe everyone needs to be Chabad because Chabad is the best. They have a systemic superiority complex. They are disdainful towards anyone frum, who is not them i.e. "misnagdim". They are blind believers in the idea that there chasidus is all they need in life, while many people are suffering. They are heavy drinkers.
I can go on and on and on busting the nice "outer appearance" you described.
They are great at pr, but otherwise sickly closed-minded and brainwashed... In my opinion.
And I have meet Shluchim. Secretly theiragenda is to recruit people for the Rebbe. They take pride in this.

You know, I didn't want it to come to this, as we have nice people from both Chabad and Litvish on this forum, but your hateful, ignorant remarks simply demands a response.

Ever since the founding of Chabad with the Alter Rebbe, (Admur Hazakein) they have been relentlessly persecuted by the Litivish. The term "Misnaged" was coined because of the vicious hatred and relentless persecution.

It's no secret that the Gr"a placed the Alter Rebbe in a Cherem based on false pretenses. He was told false information by some of his followers, and without seeking further evidence placed the Alter Rebbe in a Cherem only adding fuel to the existing bitter hatred coming from the side of the Litvish. Did the Alter Rebbe ever do such a thing to the Gr"a?

It didn't stop there. The Litvish community in Europe sought for years to eradicate Chabad and its followers. Massering on them to the governments, beating them physically in the streets and placing the Chabad Rebbe's in Cherem.

The Frierdiker Rebbe left memoirs describing in detail how his cheder Rebbe was beaten up relentlessly by Litvish thugs.

The things Man Shach said about the Lubavitcher Rebbe was so disgusting that I can't understand until today how he wasn't excommunicated by the Litvish community. The same goes for the things Aron Kotler said about the Frierdiker Rebbe. There wasn't a single incident of the Chabad Rebbe's speaking this way about any Litvish Gadol.

Fast forward to today. Fortunately, the Litvish community has for the most part learned to accept Chabad and understand its way of life and its positive effect on world Jewry. Deny it all you want, but the Litvish community and the Litvish Gedolim laughed at the Rebbe and his "Kiruv" campaigns for years and years, mocking it over and over. Chabad Shluchim have literally given their lives over to bring Jewry throughout the world closer to Yiddishkeit. Suddenly, you have Litvish Kiruv campaigns like Oorah showing off how they are doing Kiruv -- the same thing the Litvish laughed at Chabad for but several decades ago.

Chabad Shluchim that I know are very warm, and they will be warm to you if you are warm to them and don't come into their community starting your own Kiruv campaigns. If you start your own Kiruv, and definitely if you start criticizing THEIR Kiruv, I don't expect them to be warm to you.

Last but not least, to the Litvish members of DDF, I have nothing but respect for you as a fellow Jew.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 07:38:43 PM by zale »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2013, 07:39:26 PM »
Shluchim are only interested in someone they can sell the rebbe to, they give regular frum yidden the cold shoulder.

Offline efflpetzel

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2013, 07:46:17 PM »
Oy vey, mods time to rename this thread (& maybe lock it)

Offline daganster

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2013, 08:42:27 PM »
Oy vey, mods time to rename this thread (& maybe lock it)
I don't see why this thread should be locked. It's time to boot people that spew hatred against their fellow Jews.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Call of the Shofar
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2013, 09:14:12 PM »
Shluchim are only interested in someone they can sell the rebbe Hashem to, they give regular frum yidden the cold shoulder.

FTFY
Shluchim are usually busy bringing non religious people closer to yiddishkeit and don't always have the time and resources to cater to Frum people who often land on them expecting free accommodations...
That being said, looking through some of the TRs here shows quite a few Frum Yidden who enjoyed a meal or 2 by Shluchim...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 10:23:05 PM by Achas Veachas »