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Copied From the Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 1


Choosing a camera: Point and Shoot vs. Mirrorless vs. DSLR


Before you even start thinking which camera model to buy, you have to decide something much more important: the type of camera. There are three main types of cameras on the market today, and they each offer some things the others don't. Let's take a quick at them and see what the differences are and why you might choose one over the other.


Point & Shoots (P&S): These are by far the most popular cameras out there. Usually extremely compact, they're all easy to use, relatively cheap, and deliver great images. The point & shoot ranges from tiny shirt-pocket cameras such as the Canon Elph series, to large superzooms (sometimes called all-in-ones or bridge cameras) such as the Panasonic FZ series, to 'advanced' P&Ss like the Canon G series or the $2800(!) Sony RX-1. All P&Ss have fixed (non-removable) lenses.


Point & Shoot pros:
--- Amazing selection: At the time of this writing, B&H has 328 cameras in stock listed under Point & Shoot. A basic Canon Elph-style camera usually has a 3-8x zoom lens, a 3" screen, 1080p video, image stabilization, and a million other features. Should you could choose a superzoom, you'd get a 24-50x zoom, manual controls, a viewfinder, and (usually) a hotshoe for flashes. Advanced P&Ss will give you even more control, better, larger sensors, and higher quality lenses. Want a camera your baby could drop into a bowl of cereal? There are currently 18 different shock and waterproof cameras [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=100&Ns=p_PRODUCT_SHORT_DESCR|0&ci=8612&N=4288586279+35+4052359761&srtclk=sort]available
. Want a screen that swivels? Built-in GPS? WiFi? Check, check, and check. One screen not enough, you want two of 'em? Check!
--- Cheap: Even a $100 P&S will give you better pictures than a $500 camera from 5 years ago. You do not need to spend a fortune to get amazing pictures.
--- Light and easy to carry: No excuses for not shlepping the camera. If fits into your shirt pocket, a purse, just about anywhere.
--- Great video: Most current cameras are capable of recording 1080p HD video, or at least 720p. Combined with ubiquitous image stabilization P&Ss are capable of outputting awesome video.
--- Easy to use: Most P&S will only have an Auto or P mode, although some advanced or superzoom models will have full manual control. In Auto mode all you have to do is press the button. Some cameras even have an 'intelligent' auto feature where it could detect if you're shooting a flower, a portrait, etc. and adjust itself accordingly. This actually works pretty well on most cameras. In P mode you get a bit more control (you could turn the flash off, adjust the picture brighter or darker, etc.), but the camera still handles most of the decisions making for you.


Point & Shoot Cons:
--- Image quality relative to mirrorless and DSLRs: Yes, P&Ss will give you great picture quality - when situations are ideal. But if you plan to be shooting a lot in darker situations (indoors, your kids' school play) you will notice a considerable difference in quality compared to the other two. Sharpness will also not be as good as the others - the combination of a small physical lens, a small sensor, and over-zealous noise reduction (more on all of these later) is not a recipe for razor-sharp photos. These factors will be much less of an issue with advanced cameras such as the Canon G15, although a mirrorless or DSLR will still be far better.
--- Hard or impossible to achieve certain effects: You know that portrait look where the entire background is just blurred into creamy nothingness? That's one of the hardest things to create with a P&S (and conversely one of the easiest things to do with an SLR/mirrorless). Later on I'll show you some techniques to force this effect out of a P&S (to a degree), but the physics are simply not in your favor.
--- Speed: Compared to a DSLR, the P&S is practically a turtle. It takes a few seconds to turn on, zooming takes time, every setting change takes time. Most importantly though, is the speed at which the camera takes the picture. While a DSLR focuses almost instantly, a P&S could take a second or two. Once the image is in focus, there is a maddening delay called shutter lag, which is the time between you pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the picture. Between focusing and shutter lag, it could sometimes take 3 or more seconds to get your shoot, at which point the moment may be long gone. Later on we'll discuss some techniques for speeding this process up, but it'll still take far longer than a DSLR.
--- Not much control: The flip side to the P&S's ease of use it its lack of control. Want to lower your flash power so that people don't have that 'deer in headlights' look? Tough noogies. Want to change your aperture? Your shutter speed? Ain't happenin'. Of course some cameras do let you change all that, but a) they're in the minority by far, and b) since these are secondary features, you'll probably have to dig through 6 menu pages every time you want to make a change.
--- Limited expandability: A P&S is a closed system. Want a longer or wider lens? Want to use filters? No dice on most cameras. This is also a big issue if you ever want to dabble in lighting - it'll be quite difficult with a P&S.
____________


DSLRs: The big, black, "professional" looking cameras. Big, heavy, and (relatively) expensive, these have interchangeable lenses and optical viewfinders. The big players are Canon and Nikon, with Sony and Pentax having a small but dedicated market share. A typical 'starter' DSLR will have a 18 (Canon) or 24 (Nikon) megapixel sensor, come with an 18-55mm lens, and have actual buttons for only the most important tasks. As you move up through the lineup, you'll get more direct buttons and knobs, status LCDs, better focusing/metering systems, more lens support, metal or magnesium bodies, weather sealing, wireless flash control, higher frame-per-second rates, and more. You also get better kit lenses (that's the lens that comes with the camera) as you move up, and at a certain level (usually the third camera in the lineup) you'll also be able to buy the camera body by itself without any lens.


DSLR pros:
--- Image quality: This is the number one benefit of the DSLR - even the cheapest camera and lens combination will give you better pictures that any point and shoot, even if the P&S costs much more. (B&H currently lists 3 DSLR kits (camera and lens) for $450 - that's cheaper than some P&Ss.) Looking at pictures of a P&S and a DSLR side by side, you'll be blown away by the difference in sharpness, color, and dynamic range (explained later) of the DSLR. When it comes to low light, there's no contest; the DSLR wins hand down.
--- Control: In a DLSR you have control over every single shooting parameter. There are no limits to what you could create; everything's at your beck and call. Flash power, exposure, color, and most importantly, RAW shooting. (I'll get into far more detail on that last thing later.)
--- Special effects: Out of focus backgrounds? Easy peasy. Long exposures? Timelapse? You bet.
--- System expandability: DSLRs are sometimes called 'system cameras'. This is due to the fact that unlike P&Ss, a DSLR is not just a camera; it's at the heart of an entire system. Each brand has dozens of lenses available, plus many more from third-party lens manufacturers. You could get flashes, transmitters, remotes, and many other goodies and they will all work seamlessly and communicate properly to one another. BTW, this is why you should choose your first SLR very carefully: you're probably buying into a system. First you get a camera and lens, then another lens, then maybe another lens or a flash, and then the a new camera comes out so you buy that. It's quite the pain to switch to a different brand once you're bought in to the system.
--- Viewfinder: By definition, a DSLR is a single lens reflex camera; what that means is that inside the camera just behind the lens mount there's a mirror, which projects the image from the lens into a prism, which in turn shows up in the viewfinder. The big advantage of this is that when you look through the viewfinder you're actually looking through lens, and as such are seeing exactly what the lens sees. This gives you an extremely accurate and life-like view, which makes it easy to compose your shots properly. A viewfinder also lets you use the camera in bright light without worrying about not being able to see the screen.
--- Speed: A DSLR is ready to shoot almost instantly after being turned on. No matter where you are, be it a menu or playing back you pictures, a slight tap of the shutter button and the camera is instantly ready to shoot. Focus is nearly instantaneous, and shutter lag is pretty much a non-issue. Another speed aspect is continuous shooting - holding down the shutter button while the camera rattles off picture after picture. An entry-level camera  could easily do around 4.5fps (frames per second), while higher level cameras could do 7 or 8 (or 12, if you count the $6800 Canon 1D X).


DSLR cons:
--- Size and weight: There's no getting around it: DSLRs are big and bulky, especially if you're carrying more than one lens.
--- Price: DSLRs start at about $450, and go way up. One of the most common cameras, the Canon T4i, will set you back about a grand. And then you want to buy another lens. And another one. And another one... :D
--- Video: DSLR video is a really weird situation. On the one hand the quality is INSANE. Just look on Vimeo and see what people have been doing with the Canon 5DMk2 and Mk3 and you'll see what I mean. On the other hand, if you look at the behind the scenes video of one of those, you'll see that the camera is mounted on a rig costing $10K or more. The rig stabilizes the camera and provides support for the focus controls, the zoom controls, the sound system, and many other things. Why is all this necessary? Very simple - because the camera does a horrible job at all this if left to it's own devices. Focusing during video is horrible, especially if anything's moving through the scene. What this means is that if you're buying an SLR and are planning on taking videos of your kids running around in the park, you will be sorely disappointed - nothing will be in focus half the time, and when the camera finally does achieve focus, the built-in mike will have picked up every grind and whirr of the lens as it moved back and forth. Canon has made some progress on eliminating these issues with their new STM lenses, but for now that's only two cameras and two lenses, and even that isn't perfect.


__________


Mirrorless: Known by many different names (ILCs and EVILs for example), the industry has seemed to settle on Mirrorless lately. This was the brainchild of a joint venture between Olympus and Panasonic, and was aimed on creating an interchangeable-lens camera in with a P&S body and DSLR-like image quality, and has been wildly successful. Olympus and Panasonic are still the major players with their Micro 4/3s system, followed by Sony with their NEX line. Many others have tried to take over market share from the big 3, but have been largely unsuccessful mainly due to inferior products. Nikon 1, Canon, M, and Samsung NX are examples of fairly unpopular systems.


Most mirrorless cameras have a P&S form-factor, albeit somewhat larger. With the exception of Olympus and Panasonic, the lenses are not interchangeable between brands, but adapters are available to convert practically any DSLR (or old rangefinder camera) lens to just about every system. Most adapters will not autofocus the lens, so it's not exactly a perfect solution.


Mirrorless pros:
--- Size and weight: This is the main draw for most people. While not exactly pocket sized once a lens is in place, it it still a fairly compact kit and could be carried in a purse with ease. It's more like a large P&S than a small DSLR.
--- Price: Generally cheaper than a DSLR of a similar level. The Panasonics and Olympus (Olympusus? Olympi? ??? ) especially seem to be on sale more often than not.
--- Image quality: About as good as an SLR, simple as that.
--- Expandability: Like DSLRs, these cameras are part of a system. In the last couple of months more and more third parties have started to make lenses too. Micro 4/3s is a much more robust system then Sony NEX though, with many more lenses available.
--- Video: Video on mirrorless cameras is insanely fantastic. Similar in quality to an SLR, but with the ease of use of a P&S. It focuses quickly, perfectly, and fairly quietly.


Mirrorless cons:
--- Lenses: Far smaller selection than SLRs, although to be fair most important lenses are covered.
--- Image quality: A DSLR will still have slightly better image quality, especially in low light scenarios.
--- Viewfinders: Most don’t have viewfinders at all, which make it harder to use in low light. Some of those have axillary finders you could out in the hotshoe (usually at exorbitant prices or some reason), but these are just to give you a general idea of what the camera is seeing.
--- Batteries: Uses batteries like a P&S (200-400 shots), while a DSLR usually gets around 2000 shots per battery.
--- Speed: Focusing, while worlds better than P&Ss, isn't quite up to DSLR standards yet, but that's getting better every day.
--- Control: While mirrorless camera offer the same level of control as DSLRs, very often you'll have to dig through menus to get to where you want to. The main point of mirrorless being cutting down on size, buttons and knobs were eliminated without mercy.


___________


Lesson Summary:
--- Point & Shoots are great for most everyday shooting. Cheap, more options than you could ever want, great image quality and video. Quite difficult (but definitely possible - I'll show you how) to get the 'pro' look.
--- DSLR are king when it comes to image quality, control, and expandability. For the best pictures in any situation, go for a DSLR. Video, not so much.
--- Mirrorless cameras are the best of both worlds, with some caveats. Amazing image quality, the best video, and fairly small and portable. Less control and versatility than an SLR, though.

___________


For the full lesson series visit the Learn Photography Master Thread.

____________________________________________________

Links to additional Info:

Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 2: Camera specs - What do they mean, and which ones matter to me?

Canon's DSLR naming scheme
Nikon's DSLR naming scheme
« Last edited by Curlyhead on August 10, 2016, 11:42:18 AM »

Author Topic: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread  (Read 383426 times)

Offline whYME

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #500 on: February 11, 2014, 01:50:57 AM »
This video I just saw completely saved the day. It really works. You need to push right and then pull up. If you still have it give it a try. Really simple.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2P520P6STPH7H/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2P520P6STPH7H
hmmm, do I tempt fate and risk sticking a battery back in there to try this method?
That's going to be a tough decision...

Offline Fan of Dan

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #501 on: February 11, 2014, 02:44:19 AM »
hmmm, do I tempt fate and risk sticking a battery back in there to try this method?
That's going to be a tough decision...
You must! I did a bunch of sample runs it's really easy. Once you get the hang of it you will be surprised you ever had a hard time. Let me know how it goes. If you look at the wording on the charger it says push. That's the direction you push before you pull out. Waiting to hear back from you :)

Offline whYME

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #502 on: February 11, 2014, 04:04:25 AM »
You must! I did a bunch of sample runs it's really easy. Once you get the hang of it you will be surprised you ever had a hard time. Let me know how it goes. If you look at the wording on the charger it says push. That's the direction you push before you pull out. Waiting to hear back from you :)
Well, I tried it.
It was nowhere near as easy as you describe and as he did it on the video. It was still quite a struggle to get it off, but I did ultimately get it off with my bare hands...

Offline Fan of Dan

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #503 on: February 11, 2014, 09:20:58 AM »
Well, I tried it.
It was nowhere near as easy as you describe and as he did it on the video. It was still quite a struggle to get it off, but I did ultimately get it off with my bare hands...
Well at least you didn't need a screwdriver  :) Could be they fixed up their product a bit and that's why it works so well on mine. It really just pops out.

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #504 on: February 15, 2014, 08:03:58 PM »
Is Joby the company that developed the gorilla pod? A google search mainly pulls up Joby, and on Ebay I have only found companies without any names that sell the gorilla pod, aside from Joby.

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #505 on: February 15, 2014, 08:05:14 PM »
Is Joby the company that developed the gorilla pod? A google search mainly pulls up Joby, and on Ebay I have only found companies without any names that sell the gorilla pod, aside from Joby.

Yes, Joby is the original.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #506 on: February 21, 2014, 11:57:58 AM »
@SomethingFishy

Where can I get a decently priced used Sony Nex 5n?
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #507 on: February 21, 2014, 02:21:16 PM »
@SomethingFishy

Where can I get a decently priced used Sony Nex 5n?
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-NEX-5N-Compact-Interchangeable-Touchscreen/dp/B005IHAIMA
Used from amazon warehouse (usually they are basically brand new, just open box), for $348
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #508 on: February 24, 2014, 04:57:40 PM »
Is there a way to tell how many shots were taken with a mirrorless camera? Specifically the NEX line?
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #509 on: February 24, 2014, 06:22:10 PM »
Is there a way to tell how many shots were taken with a mirrorless camera? Specifically the NEX line?

Uploading a picture here should work.
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Offline jaywhy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #510 on: February 25, 2014, 10:37:54 AM »
Having spent a few days with the Panasonic GX7, these are my initial impressions.

The image quality is fantastic - on par with any APS-C sensor, low-light capability is also as good as any APS-C sensor. The built-in wifi is great, I can connect directly to my iPhone and share pictures immediately. The amount of features baked into the camera simply blow away anything made by Canon in a similar price tier. Completely silent electronic shutter option, built in timelapse and stop motion, wifi, built HDR and WB bracketing, geotagging, all remappable buttons, real AF during video mode, focus peaking!, histogram, built in level...
I haven't even explored half the features on here.

The cons. It's not as responsive as a DSLR. There is some lag when switching from LVF to EVF and when scrolling through menus and photos. There are seems to be a tad more shutter lag with the GX7. The image stabilization is not as good as Canon's and the battery life is horrible compared to DSLR. Oddly enough, there is no option for auto ISO in M mode. IS also doesn't work in video mode.
The depth of field is much larger with M 4/3 than with APS-C even when using lenses with an equivalent f-stop. I think I need a Voigtlander .95  ;)

Overall, I think the camera is a real winner.
The killer feature is the difference in size and weight :D

I started out with the kit lens and a Panny 20mm 1.7 to test out the camera. I ended up returning both and getting the new Olympus 12-40 2.8 Pro and I've been blown away by it.
Sharp as a tack, faster AF than any other lens I've ever used-including high end L lenses, an extremely useful focal range at 24-80mm equivalent, weatherproof and built like a tank, excellent color rendition. This lens is as good or better than any Pro level fast zoom lens for APS-C or FF. The best part, I got it for under $900, less than half of what the equivalent Canon L lens costs.

Offline sky121

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #511 on: February 25, 2014, 11:22:31 AM »
Looking to purchase a point and shoot for relatives in Israel.
They don't want to spend more than $180.
And of course they have kids so anything with a fast shutter speed would be helpful.

Any recommendations?


Otherwise I may just pick them up one of these http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-SX170-Digital-Black/dp/B00EFILR6E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1393345122&sr=8-4&keywords=canon+camera
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Offline Something Fishy

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Offline Mordy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #513 on: February 27, 2014, 12:59:40 PM »
The rumors out of Japan are that Canon will be exiting the sub-$200 camera market. This means discontinuing the entire A and Elph lines.

http://www.gearophile.com/newsviews/canon-retreats.html

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigicame-info.com%2F2014%2F02%2Fpost-570.html

http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/02/canon-to-leave-the-entry-level-point-shoot-market/

Boo.

Side note, I recall paying $300 for my first Canon Elph. But to be fair, back then I also sent in film to be developed (We miss you, Kodachrome!). Prices have gone down to be more competitive, but I understand that in a post-smartphone world, its hard to make enough return on their investment.
Question is, what will the outcome of this be?
Possible scenarios I'm worried about:
- More expensive point-and-shoots (The N-line is rumored to be continued, but ironically I thought it was their LEAST popular model! Price to performance never seemed like a good deal)
- cheap DSLR/Mirrorless to fill lower end (This sounds like a good idea at first, but then I remembered how some manufacturers crippled their low end offerings to make the more expensive options look more attractive. Right now Rebel cameras take pretty good pictures, very close in quality to much more expensive models. If they need to create more separation in their branding to cover the used-to-be-point-and-shoot market, the low end cameras could become lower quality by design, smaller sensors are cheaper to manufacture, etc, which could mean decent quality shooters like we have now could actually go UP in price)
- They still won't fix the moire/aliasing in video mode. Because CINEMA EOS, that's why. Brand separation stinks! They have the technology to do it right and inexpensively, but it isn't cost effective as a company for them to do.

Not to mention there are still people who don't like to rely on their cameraphone for pictures but aren't into photography enough to spend more than $200 on a basic shooter. So again I say: Boo.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #514 on: February 27, 2014, 01:07:02 PM »
There are other cameras out there. The olympus sz-12 is a pretty good cheap alternative
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Offline noturbizniss

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #515 on: February 27, 2014, 04:45:03 PM »
My mom is looking for a new point and shoot. Her request:
Quote
i have the Canon Power Shot Digital Elph SD1100 IS.  The settings are all
messed up.  I don't know how to set up anything like flash, date, change
color.  Nothing.
I am looking for a better camera than this one.  A little heavier (not too much)
coz my hands shake, something that steadies the picture, better pix & easy
to use.  Kinda.  I am tired of the camera I have.  I want to be able to take
good shots of the kids.  But I want a camera that's easy to use. " Cameras
for dummies".  Up to $300 I think.  And if settings get messed up, I want
to be able to fix them.
She's really not good with technology. She has the galaxy S3 and it confounds her often. She gets confused about how to move the pictures off the camera to her computer, my dad usually does it for her. If she's OK to $300 is the S110 a good choice for her?  Easy menu is a key feature.  I think given how old her camera is, she'd get much better pictures with any new P&S, but might as well get a good one.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 04:48:41 PM by noturbizniss »
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #516 on: February 28, 2014, 02:16:12 PM »
I want to get a tripod for my 3M mobil projector. I figure once I'm getting one, I might as well get one i can use with my GX-1.
Recommendations?
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #517 on: March 07, 2014, 08:51:50 AM »
How would you compare the Sony Nex 5N to the NEX 5T in terms of picture quality alone?
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #518 on: March 07, 2014, 09:20:47 AM »
How would you compare the Sony Nex 5N to the NEX 5T in terms of picture quality alone?

Virtually identical.

2 caveats though: the 5T has a much better focusing system, so that'll contribute to less out of focus images, and it comes with the 16-50 instead of the 18-55, which is supposed to be marginally sharper.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #519 on: March 07, 2014, 09:22:19 AM »
Virtually identical.

2 caveats though: the 5T has a much better focusing system, so that'll contribute to less out of focus images, and it comes with the 16-50 instead of the 18-55, which is supposed to be marginally sharper.

Got it. Thanks so much.
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