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Copied From the Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 1


Choosing a camera: Point and Shoot vs. Mirrorless vs. DSLR


Before you even start thinking which camera model to buy, you have to decide something much more important: the type of camera. There are three main types of cameras on the market today, and they each offer some things the others don't. Let's take a quick at them and see what the differences are and why you might choose one over the other.


Point & Shoots (P&S): These are by far the most popular cameras out there. Usually extremely compact, they're all easy to use, relatively cheap, and deliver great images. The point & shoot ranges from tiny shirt-pocket cameras such as the Canon Elph series, to large superzooms (sometimes called all-in-ones or bridge cameras) such as the Panasonic FZ series, to 'advanced' P&Ss like the Canon G series or the $2800(!) Sony RX-1. All P&Ss have fixed (non-removable) lenses.


Point & Shoot pros:
--- Amazing selection: At the time of this writing, B&H has 328 cameras in stock listed under Point & Shoot. A basic Canon Elph-style camera usually has a 3-8x zoom lens, a 3" screen, 1080p video, image stabilization, and a million other features. Should you could choose a superzoom, you'd get a 24-50x zoom, manual controls, a viewfinder, and (usually) a hotshoe for flashes. Advanced P&Ss will give you even more control, better, larger sensors, and higher quality lenses. Want a camera your baby could drop into a bowl of cereal? There are currently 18 different shock and waterproof cameras [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=100&Ns=p_PRODUCT_SHORT_DESCR|0&ci=8612&N=4288586279+35+4052359761&srtclk=sort]available
. Want a screen that swivels? Built-in GPS? WiFi? Check, check, and check. One screen not enough, you want two of 'em? Check!
--- Cheap: Even a $100 P&S will give you better pictures than a $500 camera from 5 years ago. You do not need to spend a fortune to get amazing pictures.
--- Light and easy to carry: No excuses for not shlepping the camera. If fits into your shirt pocket, a purse, just about anywhere.
--- Great video: Most current cameras are capable of recording 1080p HD video, or at least 720p. Combined with ubiquitous image stabilization P&Ss are capable of outputting awesome video.
--- Easy to use: Most P&S will only have an Auto or P mode, although some advanced or superzoom models will have full manual control. In Auto mode all you have to do is press the button. Some cameras even have an 'intelligent' auto feature where it could detect if you're shooting a flower, a portrait, etc. and adjust itself accordingly. This actually works pretty well on most cameras. In P mode you get a bit more control (you could turn the flash off, adjust the picture brighter or darker, etc.), but the camera still handles most of the decisions making for you.


Point & Shoot Cons:
--- Image quality relative to mirrorless and DSLRs: Yes, P&Ss will give you great picture quality - when situations are ideal. But if you plan to be shooting a lot in darker situations (indoors, your kids' school play) you will notice a considerable difference in quality compared to the other two. Sharpness will also not be as good as the others - the combination of a small physical lens, a small sensor, and over-zealous noise reduction (more on all of these later) is not a recipe for razor-sharp photos. These factors will be much less of an issue with advanced cameras such as the Canon G15, although a mirrorless or DSLR will still be far better.
--- Hard or impossible to achieve certain effects: You know that portrait look where the entire background is just blurred into creamy nothingness? That's one of the hardest things to create with a P&S (and conversely one of the easiest things to do with an SLR/mirrorless). Later on I'll show you some techniques to force this effect out of a P&S (to a degree), but the physics are simply not in your favor.
--- Speed: Compared to a DSLR, the P&S is practically a turtle. It takes a few seconds to turn on, zooming takes time, every setting change takes time. Most importantly though, is the speed at which the camera takes the picture. While a DSLR focuses almost instantly, a P&S could take a second or two. Once the image is in focus, there is a maddening delay called shutter lag, which is the time between you pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the picture. Between focusing and shutter lag, it could sometimes take 3 or more seconds to get your shoot, at which point the moment may be long gone. Later on we'll discuss some techniques for speeding this process up, but it'll still take far longer than a DSLR.
--- Not much control: The flip side to the P&S's ease of use it its lack of control. Want to lower your flash power so that people don't have that 'deer in headlights' look? Tough noogies. Want to change your aperture? Your shutter speed? Ain't happenin'. Of course some cameras do let you change all that, but a) they're in the minority by far, and b) since these are secondary features, you'll probably have to dig through 6 menu pages every time you want to make a change.
--- Limited expandability: A P&S is a closed system. Want a longer or wider lens? Want to use filters? No dice on most cameras. This is also a big issue if you ever want to dabble in lighting - it'll be quite difficult with a P&S.
____________


DSLRs: The big, black, "professional" looking cameras. Big, heavy, and (relatively) expensive, these have interchangeable lenses and optical viewfinders. The big players are Canon and Nikon, with Sony and Pentax having a small but dedicated market share. A typical 'starter' DSLR will have a 18 (Canon) or 24 (Nikon) megapixel sensor, come with an 18-55mm lens, and have actual buttons for only the most important tasks. As you move up through the lineup, you'll get more direct buttons and knobs, status LCDs, better focusing/metering systems, more lens support, metal or magnesium bodies, weather sealing, wireless flash control, higher frame-per-second rates, and more. You also get better kit lenses (that's the lens that comes with the camera) as you move up, and at a certain level (usually the third camera in the lineup) you'll also be able to buy the camera body by itself without any lens.


DSLR pros:
--- Image quality: This is the number one benefit of the DSLR - even the cheapest camera and lens combination will give you better pictures that any point and shoot, even if the P&S costs much more. (B&H currently lists 3 DSLR kits (camera and lens) for $450 - that's cheaper than some P&Ss.) Looking at pictures of a P&S and a DSLR side by side, you'll be blown away by the difference in sharpness, color, and dynamic range (explained later) of the DSLR. When it comes to low light, there's no contest; the DSLR wins hand down.
--- Control: In a DLSR you have control over every single shooting parameter. There are no limits to what you could create; everything's at your beck and call. Flash power, exposure, color, and most importantly, RAW shooting. (I'll get into far more detail on that last thing later.)
--- Special effects: Out of focus backgrounds? Easy peasy. Long exposures? Timelapse? You bet.
--- System expandability: DSLRs are sometimes called 'system cameras'. This is due to the fact that unlike P&Ss, a DSLR is not just a camera; it's at the heart of an entire system. Each brand has dozens of lenses available, plus many more from third-party lens manufacturers. You could get flashes, transmitters, remotes, and many other goodies and they will all work seamlessly and communicate properly to one another. BTW, this is why you should choose your first SLR very carefully: you're probably buying into a system. First you get a camera and lens, then another lens, then maybe another lens or a flash, and then the a new camera comes out so you buy that. It's quite the pain to switch to a different brand once you're bought in to the system.
--- Viewfinder: By definition, a DSLR is a single lens reflex camera; what that means is that inside the camera just behind the lens mount there's a mirror, which projects the image from the lens into a prism, which in turn shows up in the viewfinder. The big advantage of this is that when you look through the viewfinder you're actually looking through lens, and as such are seeing exactly what the lens sees. This gives you an extremely accurate and life-like view, which makes it easy to compose your shots properly. A viewfinder also lets you use the camera in bright light without worrying about not being able to see the screen.
--- Speed: A DSLR is ready to shoot almost instantly after being turned on. No matter where you are, be it a menu or playing back you pictures, a slight tap of the shutter button and the camera is instantly ready to shoot. Focus is nearly instantaneous, and shutter lag is pretty much a non-issue. Another speed aspect is continuous shooting - holding down the shutter button while the camera rattles off picture after picture. An entry-level camera  could easily do around 4.5fps (frames per second), while higher level cameras could do 7 or 8 (or 12, if you count the $6800 Canon 1D X).


DSLR cons:
--- Size and weight: There's no getting around it: DSLRs are big and bulky, especially if you're carrying more than one lens.
--- Price: DSLRs start at about $450, and go way up. One of the most common cameras, the Canon T4i, will set you back about a grand. And then you want to buy another lens. And another one. And another one... :D
--- Video: DSLR video is a really weird situation. On the one hand the quality is INSANE. Just look on Vimeo and see what people have been doing with the Canon 5DMk2 and Mk3 and you'll see what I mean. On the other hand, if you look at the behind the scenes video of one of those, you'll see that the camera is mounted on a rig costing $10K or more. The rig stabilizes the camera and provides support for the focus controls, the zoom controls, the sound system, and many other things. Why is all this necessary? Very simple - because the camera does a horrible job at all this if left to it's own devices. Focusing during video is horrible, especially if anything's moving through the scene. What this means is that if you're buying an SLR and are planning on taking videos of your kids running around in the park, you will be sorely disappointed - nothing will be in focus half the time, and when the camera finally does achieve focus, the built-in mike will have picked up every grind and whirr of the lens as it moved back and forth. Canon has made some progress on eliminating these issues with their new STM lenses, but for now that's only two cameras and two lenses, and even that isn't perfect.


__________


Mirrorless: Known by many different names (ILCs and EVILs for example), the industry has seemed to settle on Mirrorless lately. This was the brainchild of a joint venture between Olympus and Panasonic, and was aimed on creating an interchangeable-lens camera in with a P&S body and DSLR-like image quality, and has been wildly successful. Olympus and Panasonic are still the major players with their Micro 4/3s system, followed by Sony with their NEX line. Many others have tried to take over market share from the big 3, but have been largely unsuccessful mainly due to inferior products. Nikon 1, Canon, M, and Samsung NX are examples of fairly unpopular systems.


Most mirrorless cameras have a P&S form-factor, albeit somewhat larger. With the exception of Olympus and Panasonic, the lenses are not interchangeable between brands, but adapters are available to convert practically any DSLR (or old rangefinder camera) lens to just about every system. Most adapters will not autofocus the lens, so it's not exactly a perfect solution.


Mirrorless pros:
--- Size and weight: This is the main draw for most people. While not exactly pocket sized once a lens is in place, it it still a fairly compact kit and could be carried in a purse with ease. It's more like a large P&S than a small DSLR.
--- Price: Generally cheaper than a DSLR of a similar level. The Panasonics and Olympus (Olympusus? Olympi? ??? ) especially seem to be on sale more often than not.
--- Image quality: About as good as an SLR, simple as that.
--- Expandability: Like DSLRs, these cameras are part of a system. In the last couple of months more and more third parties have started to make lenses too. Micro 4/3s is a much more robust system then Sony NEX though, with many more lenses available.
--- Video: Video on mirrorless cameras is insanely fantastic. Similar in quality to an SLR, but with the ease of use of a P&S. It focuses quickly, perfectly, and fairly quietly.


Mirrorless cons:
--- Lenses: Far smaller selection than SLRs, although to be fair most important lenses are covered.
--- Image quality: A DSLR will still have slightly better image quality, especially in low light scenarios.
--- Viewfinders: Most don’t have viewfinders at all, which make it harder to use in low light. Some of those have axillary finders you could out in the hotshoe (usually at exorbitant prices or some reason), but these are just to give you a general idea of what the camera is seeing.
--- Batteries: Uses batteries like a P&S (200-400 shots), while a DSLR usually gets around 2000 shots per battery.
--- Speed: Focusing, while worlds better than P&Ss, isn't quite up to DSLR standards yet, but that's getting better every day.
--- Control: While mirrorless camera offer the same level of control as DSLRs, very often you'll have to dig through menus to get to where you want to. The main point of mirrorless being cutting down on size, buttons and knobs were eliminated without mercy.


___________


Lesson Summary:
--- Point & Shoots are great for most everyday shooting. Cheap, more options than you could ever want, great image quality and video. Quite difficult (but definitely possible - I'll show you how) to get the 'pro' look.
--- DSLR are king when it comes to image quality, control, and expandability. For the best pictures in any situation, go for a DSLR. Video, not so much.
--- Mirrorless cameras are the best of both worlds, with some caveats. Amazing image quality, the best video, and fairly small and portable. Less control and versatility than an SLR, though.

___________


For the full lesson series visit the Learn Photography Master Thread.

____________________________________________________

Links to additional Info:

Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 2: Camera specs - What do they mean, and which ones matter to me?

Canon's DSLR naming scheme
Nikon's DSLR naming scheme
« Last edited by Curlyhead on August 10, 2016, 11:42:18 AM »

Author Topic: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread  (Read 383527 times)

Offline notanonymous

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #740 on: June 09, 2014, 07:49:02 PM »
Mirrorless sounds like the thing for you.
Would you mind providing a couple of model numbers you would recommend?

Offline whYME

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #741 on: June 09, 2014, 09:32:26 PM »
2 questions:

1) Any recommendations for goPro mounts/accessories? Based on the videos you've (Something Fishy) posted here it seems I'll generally be using it in a very similar manner to you.

2) Upgrading my (t3i 18-55mm) kit lens:
Looking at the 17-50mm f/2.8's, overall the user reviews are mostly very positive for all the lenses, however
many people seem to be complaining about focusing issues with the Sigma, IIRC you've told me in the past that it's kind of hit or miss with Sigma, some of their lenses are great, some are lousy. Do all these complaints put this in the "shvach" category?

I'm not really sure what to make of the Tamron options, thought it seems some people are saying to go with the non-VC version over the VC one.

The Canon seems to be the best of the lot, (though people seem to be complaining about the build quality,) it's also significantly more expensive.

I'm lost here, what do you suggest?


(Is the fact that'll I'll probably want to upgrade to a full frame camera some day enough of a reason to consider full frame lenses now?)
bump

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #742 on: June 10, 2014, 06:58:03 AM »
Never enough cameras, eh?

Nope :).

Although this one was for my BIL.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #743 on: June 10, 2014, 07:05:18 AM »
Would you mind providing a couple of model numbers you would recommend?

Sony NEX 6 is an amazing value right now.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #744 on: June 10, 2014, 07:39:59 AM »
2 questions:

1) Any recommendations for goPro mounts/accessories? Based on the videos you've (Something Fishy) posted here it seems I'll generally be using it in a very similar manner to you.

2) Upgrading my (t3i 18-55mm) kit lens:
Looking at the 17-50mm f/2.8's, overall the user reviews are mostly very positive for all the lenses, however
many people seem to be complaining about focusing issues with the Sigma, IIRC you've told me in the past that it's kind of hit or miss with Sigma, some of their lenses are great, some are lousy. Do all these complaints put this in the "shvach" category?

I'm not really sure what to make of the Tamron options, thought it seems some people are saying to go with the non-VC version over the VC one.

The Canon seems to be the best of the lot, (though people seem to be complaining about the build quality,) it's also significantly more expensive.

I'm lost here, what do you suggest?


(Is the fact that'll I'll probably want to upgrade to a full frame camera some day enough of a reason to consider full frame lenses now?)

1) The suction cup is a must have if you want to shoot out of a car, the head strap is great for first person POV (especially if worn by kids - you could get some amazing shots that way), the roll bar mount is good for bikes, ATVs, and many random things (think kayak paddle or grill fork), and the vented helmet mount could also be used as a wrist or leg mount.

You can also use something like this to attach it to a backpack (or any strap, really).

2) The Canon would obviously be the best, but also the must expensive. Otherwise the Sigma is your best bet (and yes, this is one of their good ones). The focusing issues you mention are related to speed, meaning that it's slower compared to the Canon. It'll still be pretty fast, but that's one of the tradeoffs you make when saving more than $1000.

Stay away from the Tamrons in this category; they all fall in the shvach-to-horrible range.

Regarding buying for full frame, unless you're planning on upgrading in the next two years (which quite frankly I don't see why you should), don't take that into account when buying a lens now. You could always sell your APS-C lenses when the time comes; they retain their value tremendously.
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Offline notanonymous

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #745 on: June 10, 2014, 10:08:27 AM »
Sony NEX 6 is an amazing value right now.
Sorry, I meant in the $100 range.  Or is that not possible with mirrorless?  If that is the case, any suggestions for a p&s?  My main camera will still be my dslr;

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #746 on: June 10, 2014, 10:37:33 AM »
Sorry, I meant in the $100 range.  Or is that not possible with mirrorless?  If that is the case, any suggestions for a p&s?  My main camera will still be my dslr;

Nothing in your original question could be had for $100. The closest would be the S110 deal that was on the MS this week.
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Offline Mordy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #747 on: June 10, 2014, 01:36:17 PM »
2) Upgrading my (t3i 18-55mm) kit lens:
Looking at the 17-50mm f/2.8's, overall the user reviews are mostly very positive for all the lenses, however
many people seem to be complaining about focusing issues with the Sigma, IIRC you've told me in the past that it's kind of hit or miss with Sigma, some of their lenses are great, some are lousy. Do all these complaints put this in the "shvach" category?

I'm not really sure what to make of the Tamron options, thought it seems some people are saying to go with the non-VC version over the VC one.

The Canon seems to be the best of the lot, (though people seem to be complaining about the build quality,) it's also significantly more expensive.
(Is the fact that'll I'll probably want to upgrade to a full frame camera some day enough of a reason to consider full frame lenses now?)

Stay away from the Tamrons in this category; they all fall in the shvach-to-horrible range.

Actually, the non VC Tamron is quite awesome. I went through this very same dilemma when I started shooting Canon DSLR for video, and needed a constant aperture zoom that wouldn't break the bank.

The Sigma was good- it was actually better than the VC Tamron, but the non-VC trumps both in edge sharpness, especially wide open where the Sigma gets soft. I love my Tamron non-VC, its become my walk-around lens when shooting Canon, very highly recommend it! I almost bought a second one in Nikon mount so I can adapt it to my mirrorless cameras and keep iris control (Canon's iris is entirely electronic).

But instead, I went with the Tamron A09 model 28-75 f/2.8 with a speedbooster. Because that one actually has been compared to the Canon L of similar range- super sharp and a great deal used, and the Nikon version has a physical aperture wheel! Not sure why Something Fishy doesn't like the Tamrons- some of them have a cult-following (that 17-50 non-VC being one of them)! The new ones with VC aren't as impressive, so perhaps that's the reference point here.
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Offline Mordy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #748 on: June 10, 2014, 01:40:06 PM »
Sorry, I meant in the $100 range.  Or is that not possible with mirrorless?  If that is the case, any suggestions for a p&s?  My main camera will still be my dslr;

Closest you can get is a refurbished Olympus. My buddy bought the E-PL1 for about $130 body-only a couple of years ago. But then you need to buy a lens, or at least an adapter to use your DSLR lenses. Mirrorless might be marginally cheaper than a DSLR body, but its still more than a P&S!
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Offline wayfe

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #749 on: June 11, 2014, 02:13:03 PM »
Does anybody know if B&H or Adorama's 30 return policy allows for trying the camera out? Is it still in new condition if I try it out? I'm not buying with 100% intent to return- so no comments on whether this is right or not, please.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #750 on: June 11, 2014, 02:19:52 PM »
Why not give them a call?

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #751 on: June 11, 2014, 02:25:29 PM »
Or chat.
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Offline YG

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Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #752 on: June 11, 2014, 02:34:25 PM »
Never done it with a body but I have returned several lenses to B&H after using them for a couple of weeks and deciding they weren't worthy investments for me at the time.

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #753 on: June 11, 2014, 03:35:14 PM »
Does anybody know if B&H or Adorama's 30 return policy allows for trying the camera out? Is it still in new condition if I try it out? I'm not buying with 100% intent to return- so no comments on whether this is right or not, please.

Can't talk for Adorama, but with B&H you'll have no problem returning it so long as it's in good condition (looks more or less new), has all the packaging and parts, and has less than 200 shutter acutations (not that I've ever seen them check that, but officially that's the rule).
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Offline Fan of Dan

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #754 on: June 11, 2014, 08:50:31 PM »
Can't talk for Adorama, but with B&H you'll have no problem returning it so long as it's in good condition (looks more or less new), has all the packaging and parts, and has less than 200 shutter acutations (not that I've ever seen them check that, but officially that's the rule).
Slightly off topic I have been looking at used cameras and I noticed a lot of talk about shutter actuations. Why does that make a difference if the camera is in good condition? Is it just a way to see how much it was used or does it actually make a difference?

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #755 on: June 11, 2014, 08:59:51 PM »
Slightly off topic I have been looking at used cameras and I noticed a lot of talk about shutter actuations. Why does that make a difference if the camera is in good condition? Is it just a way to see how much it was used or does it actually make a difference?

Every DSLR has a rated shutter-actuation life. Once you go past a certain number it can't be considered as-new anymore.
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Offline notanonymous

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #756 on: June 11, 2014, 09:03:30 PM »
Nothing in your original question could be had for $100. The closest would be the S110 deal that was on the MS this week.

My OP...

I have not owned a P&S in over 5 years.  Among all of the advantages of the DSLR, one of the one's I have gotten most used to is the shutter response (especially with no flash). How have the advances in the past few years been with the P&S?  Can I get one in the <$100 range with a decent shutter response?

That was my question.  Which P&S has a good shutter/focus response? (a spec that is not advertised)

The mirrorless discussion was in response to someone's suggestion.  I guess they did not see my $100 price range.

I try to stay away from MIR, so the S110 is out.  I'll keep looking...

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #757 on: June 11, 2014, 09:23:21 PM »
My OP...

That was my question.  Which P&S has a good shutter/focus response? (a spec that is not advertised)

The mirrorless discussion was in response to someone's suggestion.  I guess they did not see my $100 price range.

I try to stay away from MIR, so the S110 is out.  I'll keep looking...

Ah... I was responding to this:
We are going to E"Y this summer.  Last time we were there I lugged my DSLR around.  Not sure if I want to do the same.  Your thoughts on finding a good P&S for (probably) mostly action, or near-action (i.e. six kids not sitting still for poses) shots.

...which won't really be served as well with any ~$100 camera, but for what mirrorless is perfect.

In any case, that price range is practically rock-bottom, so as long as you get any decent P&S (for example an Canon Elph), the shutter/focus response should be around the best you could expect.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #758 on: June 12, 2014, 12:48:02 AM »
Ah... I was responding to this:
...which won't really be served as well with any ~$100 camera, but for what mirrorless is perfect.

In any case, that price range is practically rock-bottom, so as long as you get any decent P&S (for example an Canon Elph), the shutter/focus response should be around the best you could expect.
Which I imagine is much, much faster than the last time I had/used a P&S 4+ years ago.

Thanks again!

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #759 on: June 12, 2014, 01:08:33 AM »
Which I imagine is much, much faster than the last time I had/used a P&S 4+ years ago.

Thanks again!

No question about that, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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