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Copied From the Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 1


Choosing a camera: Point and Shoot vs. Mirrorless vs. DSLR


Before you even start thinking which camera model to buy, you have to decide something much more important: the type of camera. There are three main types of cameras on the market today, and they each offer some things the others don't. Let's take a quick at them and see what the differences are and why you might choose one over the other.


Point & Shoots (P&S): These are by far the most popular cameras out there. Usually extremely compact, they're all easy to use, relatively cheap, and deliver great images. The point & shoot ranges from tiny shirt-pocket cameras such as the Canon Elph series, to large superzooms (sometimes called all-in-ones or bridge cameras) such as the Panasonic FZ series, to 'advanced' P&Ss like the Canon G series or the $2800(!) Sony RX-1. All P&Ss have fixed (non-removable) lenses.


Point & Shoot pros:
--- Amazing selection: At the time of this writing, B&H has 328 cameras in stock listed under Point & Shoot. A basic Canon Elph-style camera usually has a 3-8x zoom lens, a 3" screen, 1080p video, image stabilization, and a million other features. Should you could choose a superzoom, you'd get a 24-50x zoom, manual controls, a viewfinder, and (usually) a hotshoe for flashes. Advanced P&Ss will give you even more control, better, larger sensors, and higher quality lenses. Want a camera your baby could drop into a bowl of cereal? There are currently 18 different shock and waterproof cameras [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=100&Ns=p_PRODUCT_SHORT_DESCR|0&ci=8612&N=4288586279+35+4052359761&srtclk=sort]available
. Want a screen that swivels? Built-in GPS? WiFi? Check, check, and check. One screen not enough, you want two of 'em? Check!
--- Cheap: Even a $100 P&S will give you better pictures than a $500 camera from 5 years ago. You do not need to spend a fortune to get amazing pictures.
--- Light and easy to carry: No excuses for not shlepping the camera. If fits into your shirt pocket, a purse, just about anywhere.
--- Great video: Most current cameras are capable of recording 1080p HD video, or at least 720p. Combined with ubiquitous image stabilization P&Ss are capable of outputting awesome video.
--- Easy to use: Most P&S will only have an Auto or P mode, although some advanced or superzoom models will have full manual control. In Auto mode all you have to do is press the button. Some cameras even have an 'intelligent' auto feature where it could detect if you're shooting a flower, a portrait, etc. and adjust itself accordingly. This actually works pretty well on most cameras. In P mode you get a bit more control (you could turn the flash off, adjust the picture brighter or darker, etc.), but the camera still handles most of the decisions making for you.


Point & Shoot Cons:
--- Image quality relative to mirrorless and DSLRs: Yes, P&Ss will give you great picture quality - when situations are ideal. But if you plan to be shooting a lot in darker situations (indoors, your kids' school play) you will notice a considerable difference in quality compared to the other two. Sharpness will also not be as good as the others - the combination of a small physical lens, a small sensor, and over-zealous noise reduction (more on all of these later) is not a recipe for razor-sharp photos. These factors will be much less of an issue with advanced cameras such as the Canon G15, although a mirrorless or DSLR will still be far better.
--- Hard or impossible to achieve certain effects: You know that portrait look where the entire background is just blurred into creamy nothingness? That's one of the hardest things to create with a P&S (and conversely one of the easiest things to do with an SLR/mirrorless). Later on I'll show you some techniques to force this effect out of a P&S (to a degree), but the physics are simply not in your favor.
--- Speed: Compared to a DSLR, the P&S is practically a turtle. It takes a few seconds to turn on, zooming takes time, every setting change takes time. Most importantly though, is the speed at which the camera takes the picture. While a DSLR focuses almost instantly, a P&S could take a second or two. Once the image is in focus, there is a maddening delay called shutter lag, which is the time between you pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the picture. Between focusing and shutter lag, it could sometimes take 3 or more seconds to get your shoot, at which point the moment may be long gone. Later on we'll discuss some techniques for speeding this process up, but it'll still take far longer than a DSLR.
--- Not much control: The flip side to the P&S's ease of use it its lack of control. Want to lower your flash power so that people don't have that 'deer in headlights' look? Tough noogies. Want to change your aperture? Your shutter speed? Ain't happenin'. Of course some cameras do let you change all that, but a) they're in the minority by far, and b) since these are secondary features, you'll probably have to dig through 6 menu pages every time you want to make a change.
--- Limited expandability: A P&S is a closed system. Want a longer or wider lens? Want to use filters? No dice on most cameras. This is also a big issue if you ever want to dabble in lighting - it'll be quite difficult with a P&S.
____________


DSLRs: The big, black, "professional" looking cameras. Big, heavy, and (relatively) expensive, these have interchangeable lenses and optical viewfinders. The big players are Canon and Nikon, with Sony and Pentax having a small but dedicated market share. A typical 'starter' DSLR will have a 18 (Canon) or 24 (Nikon) megapixel sensor, come with an 18-55mm lens, and have actual buttons for only the most important tasks. As you move up through the lineup, you'll get more direct buttons and knobs, status LCDs, better focusing/metering systems, more lens support, metal or magnesium bodies, weather sealing, wireless flash control, higher frame-per-second rates, and more. You also get better kit lenses (that's the lens that comes with the camera) as you move up, and at a certain level (usually the third camera in the lineup) you'll also be able to buy the camera body by itself without any lens.


DSLR pros:
--- Image quality: This is the number one benefit of the DSLR - even the cheapest camera and lens combination will give you better pictures that any point and shoot, even if the P&S costs much more. (B&H currently lists 3 DSLR kits (camera and lens) for $450 - that's cheaper than some P&Ss.) Looking at pictures of a P&S and a DSLR side by side, you'll be blown away by the difference in sharpness, color, and dynamic range (explained later) of the DSLR. When it comes to low light, there's no contest; the DSLR wins hand down.
--- Control: In a DLSR you have control over every single shooting parameter. There are no limits to what you could create; everything's at your beck and call. Flash power, exposure, color, and most importantly, RAW shooting. (I'll get into far more detail on that last thing later.)
--- Special effects: Out of focus backgrounds? Easy peasy. Long exposures? Timelapse? You bet.
--- System expandability: DSLRs are sometimes called 'system cameras'. This is due to the fact that unlike P&Ss, a DSLR is not just a camera; it's at the heart of an entire system. Each brand has dozens of lenses available, plus many more from third-party lens manufacturers. You could get flashes, transmitters, remotes, and many other goodies and they will all work seamlessly and communicate properly to one another. BTW, this is why you should choose your first SLR very carefully: you're probably buying into a system. First you get a camera and lens, then another lens, then maybe another lens or a flash, and then the a new camera comes out so you buy that. It's quite the pain to switch to a different brand once you're bought in to the system.
--- Viewfinder: By definition, a DSLR is a single lens reflex camera; what that means is that inside the camera just behind the lens mount there's a mirror, which projects the image from the lens into a prism, which in turn shows up in the viewfinder. The big advantage of this is that when you look through the viewfinder you're actually looking through lens, and as such are seeing exactly what the lens sees. This gives you an extremely accurate and life-like view, which makes it easy to compose your shots properly. A viewfinder also lets you use the camera in bright light without worrying about not being able to see the screen.
--- Speed: A DSLR is ready to shoot almost instantly after being turned on. No matter where you are, be it a menu or playing back you pictures, a slight tap of the shutter button and the camera is instantly ready to shoot. Focus is nearly instantaneous, and shutter lag is pretty much a non-issue. Another speed aspect is continuous shooting - holding down the shutter button while the camera rattles off picture after picture. An entry-level camera  could easily do around 4.5fps (frames per second), while higher level cameras could do 7 or 8 (or 12, if you count the $6800 Canon 1D X).


DSLR cons:
--- Size and weight: There's no getting around it: DSLRs are big and bulky, especially if you're carrying more than one lens.
--- Price: DSLRs start at about $450, and go way up. One of the most common cameras, the Canon T4i, will set you back about a grand. And then you want to buy another lens. And another one. And another one... :D
--- Video: DSLR video is a really weird situation. On the one hand the quality is INSANE. Just look on Vimeo and see what people have been doing with the Canon 5DMk2 and Mk3 and you'll see what I mean. On the other hand, if you look at the behind the scenes video of one of those, you'll see that the camera is mounted on a rig costing $10K or more. The rig stabilizes the camera and provides support for the focus controls, the zoom controls, the sound system, and many other things. Why is all this necessary? Very simple - because the camera does a horrible job at all this if left to it's own devices. Focusing during video is horrible, especially if anything's moving through the scene. What this means is that if you're buying an SLR and are planning on taking videos of your kids running around in the park, you will be sorely disappointed - nothing will be in focus half the time, and when the camera finally does achieve focus, the built-in mike will have picked up every grind and whirr of the lens as it moved back and forth. Canon has made some progress on eliminating these issues with their new STM lenses, but for now that's only two cameras and two lenses, and even that isn't perfect.


__________


Mirrorless: Known by many different names (ILCs and EVILs for example), the industry has seemed to settle on Mirrorless lately. This was the brainchild of a joint venture between Olympus and Panasonic, and was aimed on creating an interchangeable-lens camera in with a P&S body and DSLR-like image quality, and has been wildly successful. Olympus and Panasonic are still the major players with their Micro 4/3s system, followed by Sony with their NEX line. Many others have tried to take over market share from the big 3, but have been largely unsuccessful mainly due to inferior products. Nikon 1, Canon, M, and Samsung NX are examples of fairly unpopular systems.


Most mirrorless cameras have a P&S form-factor, albeit somewhat larger. With the exception of Olympus and Panasonic, the lenses are not interchangeable between brands, but adapters are available to convert practically any DSLR (or old rangefinder camera) lens to just about every system. Most adapters will not autofocus the lens, so it's not exactly a perfect solution.


Mirrorless pros:
--- Size and weight: This is the main draw for most people. While not exactly pocket sized once a lens is in place, it it still a fairly compact kit and could be carried in a purse with ease. It's more like a large P&S than a small DSLR.
--- Price: Generally cheaper than a DSLR of a similar level. The Panasonics and Olympus (Olympusus? Olympi? ??? ) especially seem to be on sale more often than not.
--- Image quality: About as good as an SLR, simple as that.
--- Expandability: Like DSLRs, these cameras are part of a system. In the last couple of months more and more third parties have started to make lenses too. Micro 4/3s is a much more robust system then Sony NEX though, with many more lenses available.
--- Video: Video on mirrorless cameras is insanely fantastic. Similar in quality to an SLR, but with the ease of use of a P&S. It focuses quickly, perfectly, and fairly quietly.


Mirrorless cons:
--- Lenses: Far smaller selection than SLRs, although to be fair most important lenses are covered.
--- Image quality: A DSLR will still have slightly better image quality, especially in low light scenarios.
--- Viewfinders: Most don’t have viewfinders at all, which make it harder to use in low light. Some of those have axillary finders you could out in the hotshoe (usually at exorbitant prices or some reason), but these are just to give you a general idea of what the camera is seeing.
--- Batteries: Uses batteries like a P&S (200-400 shots), while a DSLR usually gets around 2000 shots per battery.
--- Speed: Focusing, while worlds better than P&Ss, isn't quite up to DSLR standards yet, but that's getting better every day.
--- Control: While mirrorless camera offer the same level of control as DSLRs, very often you'll have to dig through menus to get to where you want to. The main point of mirrorless being cutting down on size, buttons and knobs were eliminated without mercy.


___________


Lesson Summary:
--- Point & Shoots are great for most everyday shooting. Cheap, more options than you could ever want, great image quality and video. Quite difficult (but definitely possible - I'll show you how) to get the 'pro' look.
--- DSLR are king when it comes to image quality, control, and expandability. For the best pictures in any situation, go for a DSLR. Video, not so much.
--- Mirrorless cameras are the best of both worlds, with some caveats. Amazing image quality, the best video, and fairly small and portable. Less control and versatility than an SLR, though.

___________


For the full lesson series visit the Learn Photography Master Thread.

____________________________________________________

Links to additional Info:

Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 2: Camera specs - What do they mean, and which ones matter to me?

Canon's DSLR naming scheme
Nikon's DSLR naming scheme
« Last edited by Curlyhead on August 10, 2016, 11:42:18 AM »

Author Topic: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread  (Read 379044 times)

Offline chucksterace

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #860 on: July 22, 2014, 12:28:11 AM »
What as in what camera or what settings?

Pictures of planes or from planes?


As in which camera and/or what setting.. I don't have any camera now. (right now I am looking at the Pentax K-50 or Sony Nex-6, any good for this?)

At planes from the ground behind a fence.. Any interest in a Mini-Photography DO next week when I'm in town?
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #861 on: July 22, 2014, 12:39:46 AM »

As in which camera and/or what setting.. I don't have any camera now. (right now I am looking at the Pentax K-50 or Sony Nex-6, any good for this?)

At planes from the ground behind a fence.. Any interest in a Mini-Photography DO next week when I'm in town?

Any camera really would be good for this. The longer the lens the better too.

There are no specific settings. Your typical outdoor settings would all work well (low ISO, medium aperture, relatively fast shutter speed). At night you'll have a harder time, so you could either use your largest aperture, a high ISO, and whatever shutter gets the plane sharp, or you could use a tripod and go for light trails instead.

As far as a DO is really hard for me to say. I may be in the mountains, and I may be going to check out apartments (still no luck finding something). Remind me in the DO thread on Friday/Motzei Shabbos and we'll see.
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Offline chucksterace

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #862 on: July 22, 2014, 12:42:31 AM »
Any camera really would be good for this. The longer the lens the better too.

There are no specific settings. Your typical outdoor settings would all work well (low ISO, medium aperture, relatively fast shutter speed). At night you'll have a harder time, so you could either use your largest aperture, a high ISO, and whatever shutter gets the plane sharp, or you could use a tripod and go for light trails instead.

As far as a DO is really hard for me to say. I may be in the mountains, and I may be going to check out apartments (still no luck finding something). Remind me in the DO thread on Friday/Motzei Shabbos and we'll see.

Will do. With regards to those two cameras which is better? As for the shutter speed, is that a camera setting or one camera better then the other? (I don't know anything about cameras)

I do more outside shooting then indoor.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #863 on: July 22, 2014, 12:50:15 AM »
Will do. With regards to those two cameras which is better? As for the shutter speed, is that a camera setting or one camera better then the other? (I don't know anything about cameras)

I do more outside shooting then indoor.

Personally I'd go for the Sony. Shutter speed is a setting, and is available on anything other than low-level point and shoots.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #864 on: July 22, 2014, 12:51:15 AM »
Personally I'd go for the Sony. Shutter speed is a setting, and is available on anything other than low-level point and shoots.

alrighty  thanks. will pm you later in the week
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Offline whYME

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #865 on: July 24, 2014, 02:33:37 PM »
A blower is one of the best things to have in your camera bag, even if you don't change lenses. I never leave home without it.

The Giottos you asked about is the gold standard.
Any good reason to go for the medium (or large) over the small?


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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #866 on: July 24, 2014, 02:49:49 PM »
Any good reason to go for the medium (or large) over the small?

Believe it or not I've conducted experiments about this (it was a really slow day at work :P). There is a significant difference between the small and medium, but no discernable difference between the medium and large.

I find the small too weak sometimes, so I'd suggest go with the medium.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #867 on: July 24, 2014, 02:57:50 PM »
Believe it or not I've conducted experiments about this (it was a really slow day at work :P). There is a significant difference between the small and medium, but no discernable difference between the medium and large.

I find the small too weak sometimes, so I'd suggest go with the medium.
Thanks.
I just ordered the medium, hopefully it'll fit in my bag.

Offline AJK

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #868 on: July 24, 2014, 06:56:13 PM »
Lucky is in the market for a new camera and posted asking for recommendations.

Comments are littered with recommendations for the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III.

SF, thoughts?
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #869 on: July 24, 2014, 06:59:48 PM »
Lucky is in the market for a new camera and posted asking for recommendations.

Comments are littered with recommendations for the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III.

SF, thoughts?

It's a great camera, you can't go wrong with it. Tiny and amazing quality.
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Offline ChAiM'l

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #870 on: July 24, 2014, 07:11:24 PM »
Lucky is in the market for a new camera and posted asking for recommendations.

Comments are littered with recommendations for the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III.

SF, thoughts?
I have the first version of it (as a second camera) and I love it.

Offline AJK

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #871 on: July 24, 2014, 07:23:31 PM »
But it doesn't compare to a mirrorless still, say compared to the a6000?

The reviews are rather stellar:

Quote
In some respects it's easy to draw a conclusion about the RX100 III: it provides better image quality than any camera its size ever has. Add to this an impressive and comprehensive feature set and it looks like the very definition of a stand-out camera. And yet... While Sony has made great strides beyond what was already a hugely capable camera, it has done very little to make it fun to shoot with. In terms of shooting experience, the RX100 III continues to feel more like a camera that will somewhat grudgingly let you take control, rather than an enthusiast camera designed for the committed photographer from the ground up.

However, the breadth of the M3's capabilities, from its bright, flexible lens and handy viewfinder, through to its class-defining image quality and well-supported, high-quality video capture mean there's nothing to really match it. And if you mainly shoot in P or Auto mode, you may never experience our frustrations about the handing. The RX100 series has always been technically impressive, but the addition of the brighter lens, viewfinder and ND filter extend its utility to a huge degree. Owners of its predecessors should seriously consider upgrading unless they need more zoom reach.

Our concerns about the handling leave us concluding that, if it had a credible rival, there's every chance the RX100 M3 wouldn't get a Gold award - we'd like a more enjoyable shooting experience from an $800 camera. Ultimately, though, the additions to what were already the strongest cameras in their class leave the RX100 III literally peerless. At which point it has to go one better than its predecessors, and receive our highest award.
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #872 on: July 24, 2014, 07:28:53 PM »
But it doesn't compare to a mirrorless still, say compared to the a6000?

The reviews are rather stellar:

Same sensor as a mirrorless, but without the flexibility of different lenses and accessories. It's still a point and shoot at the end of the day.
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Offline Fan of Dan

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #873 on: July 29, 2014, 01:38:27 PM »
I bought 2 filters for my 58mm thread lens and now I want to get an ND grad filter as well. Is it worth buying that for my lens or I am better off buying into a system like Lee which can work with any thread size - assuming I just buy a large adapter and a step down piece to connect my different size lenses.

Another benefit of Lee is the big stopper and I was curious if there is a comparable product for less money out there.

Thanks!

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #874 on: July 29, 2014, 01:51:13 PM »
I bought 2 filters for my 58mm thread lens and now I want to get an ND grad filter as well. Is it worth buying that for my lens or I am better off buying into a system like Lee which can work with any thread size - assuming I just buy a large adapter and a step down piece to connect my different size lenses.

Another benefit of Lee is the big stopper and I was curious if there is a comparable product for less money out there.

Thanks!

Easy answer - generally not a good idea.

Tell me what lens you have and I'll give you a more detailed answer.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #875 on: July 29, 2014, 02:46:32 PM »
Easy answer - generally not a good idea.

Tell me what lens you have and I'll give you a more detailed answer.
Thanks!

I have the following Canon lenses -
18-55mm  58mm filter thread
50mm       52mm filter thread
100-400    77mm filter thread
10-18mm  67mm filter thread (the lens is on it's way)

I plan to sell the 100-400 and buy either the 70-200 f4 or f2.8 which is either 67mm or 77mm. Likely will go with the f4 (67mm).

Offline joey123

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #876 on: July 30, 2014, 03:04:03 PM »
Paging @SomethingFishy

I see this on sale on eBay Lytro Light Field Camera, 8GB. What are your thoughts? DO these work well?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291195531300

TIA. More curiosity than actually interested in buying as I have the camera you recommended to me already.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #877 on: July 30, 2014, 03:15:50 PM »
Paging @SomethingFishy

I see this on sale on eBay Lytro Light Field Camera, 8GB. What are your thoughts? DO these work well?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291195531300

TIA. More curiosity than actually interested in buying as I have the camera you recommended to me already.

It's a cool toy. When the excitement wears off after a week, you're left with a pretty lousy camera.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #878 on: July 30, 2014, 03:57:48 PM »
Seems like an awesome deal for a T5i:
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/48549
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #879 on: July 31, 2014, 04:32:22 PM »
SF, pop quiz for you.

What Nikon bodies have screw-drive AF versus ones that don't?

I have some really nice vintage lenses that supposedly will autofocus with the right body. Apparently a D5100 is NOT the right body (BIM lenses only!). Which ones should I be looking at?
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