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Copied From the Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 1


Choosing a camera: Point and Shoot vs. Mirrorless vs. DSLR


Before you even start thinking which camera model to buy, you have to decide something much more important: the type of camera. There are three main types of cameras on the market today, and they each offer some things the others don't. Let's take a quick at them and see what the differences are and why you might choose one over the other.


Point & Shoots (P&S): These are by far the most popular cameras out there. Usually extremely compact, they're all easy to use, relatively cheap, and deliver great images. The point & shoot ranges from tiny shirt-pocket cameras such as the Canon Elph series, to large superzooms (sometimes called all-in-ones or bridge cameras) such as the Panasonic FZ series, to 'advanced' P&Ss like the Canon G series or the $2800(!) Sony RX-1. All P&Ss have fixed (non-removable) lenses.


Point & Shoot pros:
--- Amazing selection: At the time of this writing, B&H has 328 cameras in stock listed under Point & Shoot. A basic Canon Elph-style camera usually has a 3-8x zoom lens, a 3" screen, 1080p video, image stabilization, and a million other features. Should you could choose a superzoom, you'd get a 24-50x zoom, manual controls, a viewfinder, and (usually) a hotshoe for flashes. Advanced P&Ss will give you even more control, better, larger sensors, and higher quality lenses. Want a camera your baby could drop into a bowl of cereal? There are currently 18 different shock and waterproof cameras [url=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=100&Ns=p_PRODUCT_SHORT_DESCR|0&ci=8612&N=4288586279+35+4052359761&srtclk=sort]available
. Want a screen that swivels? Built-in GPS? WiFi? Check, check, and check. One screen not enough, you want two of 'em? Check!
--- Cheap: Even a $100 P&S will give you better pictures than a $500 camera from 5 years ago. You do not need to spend a fortune to get amazing pictures.
--- Light and easy to carry: No excuses for not shlepping the camera. If fits into your shirt pocket, a purse, just about anywhere.
--- Great video: Most current cameras are capable of recording 1080p HD video, or at least 720p. Combined with ubiquitous image stabilization P&Ss are capable of outputting awesome video.
--- Easy to use: Most P&S will only have an Auto or P mode, although some advanced or superzoom models will have full manual control. In Auto mode all you have to do is press the button. Some cameras even have an 'intelligent' auto feature where it could detect if you're shooting a flower, a portrait, etc. and adjust itself accordingly. This actually works pretty well on most cameras. In P mode you get a bit more control (you could turn the flash off, adjust the picture brighter or darker, etc.), but the camera still handles most of the decisions making for you.


Point & Shoot Cons:
--- Image quality relative to mirrorless and DSLRs: Yes, P&Ss will give you great picture quality - when situations are ideal. But if you plan to be shooting a lot in darker situations (indoors, your kids' school play) you will notice a considerable difference in quality compared to the other two. Sharpness will also not be as good as the others - the combination of a small physical lens, a small sensor, and over-zealous noise reduction (more on all of these later) is not a recipe for razor-sharp photos. These factors will be much less of an issue with advanced cameras such as the Canon G15, although a mirrorless or DSLR will still be far better.
--- Hard or impossible to achieve certain effects: You know that portrait look where the entire background is just blurred into creamy nothingness? That's one of the hardest things to create with a P&S (and conversely one of the easiest things to do with an SLR/mirrorless). Later on I'll show you some techniques to force this effect out of a P&S (to a degree), but the physics are simply not in your favor.
--- Speed: Compared to a DSLR, the P&S is practically a turtle. It takes a few seconds to turn on, zooming takes time, every setting change takes time. Most importantly though, is the speed at which the camera takes the picture. While a DSLR focuses almost instantly, a P&S could take a second or two. Once the image is in focus, there is a maddening delay called shutter lag, which is the time between you pressing the shutter button and the camera actually taking the picture. Between focusing and shutter lag, it could sometimes take 3 or more seconds to get your shoot, at which point the moment may be long gone. Later on we'll discuss some techniques for speeding this process up, but it'll still take far longer than a DSLR.
--- Not much control: The flip side to the P&S's ease of use it its lack of control. Want to lower your flash power so that people don't have that 'deer in headlights' look? Tough noogies. Want to change your aperture? Your shutter speed? Ain't happenin'. Of course some cameras do let you change all that, but a) they're in the minority by far, and b) since these are secondary features, you'll probably have to dig through 6 menu pages every time you want to make a change.
--- Limited expandability: A P&S is a closed system. Want a longer or wider lens? Want to use filters? No dice on most cameras. This is also a big issue if you ever want to dabble in lighting - it'll be quite difficult with a P&S.
____________


DSLRs: The big, black, "professional" looking cameras. Big, heavy, and (relatively) expensive, these have interchangeable lenses and optical viewfinders. The big players are Canon and Nikon, with Sony and Pentax having a small but dedicated market share. A typical 'starter' DSLR will have a 18 (Canon) or 24 (Nikon) megapixel sensor, come with an 18-55mm lens, and have actual buttons for only the most important tasks. As you move up through the lineup, you'll get more direct buttons and knobs, status LCDs, better focusing/metering systems, more lens support, metal or magnesium bodies, weather sealing, wireless flash control, higher frame-per-second rates, and more. You also get better kit lenses (that's the lens that comes with the camera) as you move up, and at a certain level (usually the third camera in the lineup) you'll also be able to buy the camera body by itself without any lens.


DSLR pros:
--- Image quality: This is the number one benefit of the DSLR - even the cheapest camera and lens combination will give you better pictures that any point and shoot, even if the P&S costs much more. (B&H currently lists 3 DSLR kits (camera and lens) for $450 - that's cheaper than some P&Ss.) Looking at pictures of a P&S and a DSLR side by side, you'll be blown away by the difference in sharpness, color, and dynamic range (explained later) of the DSLR. When it comes to low light, there's no contest; the DSLR wins hand down.
--- Control: In a DLSR you have control over every single shooting parameter. There are no limits to what you could create; everything's at your beck and call. Flash power, exposure, color, and most importantly, RAW shooting. (I'll get into far more detail on that last thing later.)
--- Special effects: Out of focus backgrounds? Easy peasy. Long exposures? Timelapse? You bet.
--- System expandability: DSLRs are sometimes called 'system cameras'. This is due to the fact that unlike P&Ss, a DSLR is not just a camera; it's at the heart of an entire system. Each brand has dozens of lenses available, plus many more from third-party lens manufacturers. You could get flashes, transmitters, remotes, and many other goodies and they will all work seamlessly and communicate properly to one another. BTW, this is why you should choose your first SLR very carefully: you're probably buying into a system. First you get a camera and lens, then another lens, then maybe another lens or a flash, and then the a new camera comes out so you buy that. It's quite the pain to switch to a different brand once you're bought in to the system.
--- Viewfinder: By definition, a DSLR is a single lens reflex camera; what that means is that inside the camera just behind the lens mount there's a mirror, which projects the image from the lens into a prism, which in turn shows up in the viewfinder. The big advantage of this is that when you look through the viewfinder you're actually looking through lens, and as such are seeing exactly what the lens sees. This gives you an extremely accurate and life-like view, which makes it easy to compose your shots properly. A viewfinder also lets you use the camera in bright light without worrying about not being able to see the screen.
--- Speed: A DSLR is ready to shoot almost instantly after being turned on. No matter where you are, be it a menu or playing back you pictures, a slight tap of the shutter button and the camera is instantly ready to shoot. Focus is nearly instantaneous, and shutter lag is pretty much a non-issue. Another speed aspect is continuous shooting - holding down the shutter button while the camera rattles off picture after picture. An entry-level camera  could easily do around 4.5fps (frames per second), while higher level cameras could do 7 or 8 (or 12, if you count the $6800 Canon 1D X).


DSLR cons:
--- Size and weight: There's no getting around it: DSLRs are big and bulky, especially if you're carrying more than one lens.
--- Price: DSLRs start at about $450, and go way up. One of the most common cameras, the Canon T4i, will set you back about a grand. And then you want to buy another lens. And another one. And another one... :D
--- Video: DSLR video is a really weird situation. On the one hand the quality is INSANE. Just look on Vimeo and see what people have been doing with the Canon 5DMk2 and Mk3 and you'll see what I mean. On the other hand, if you look at the behind the scenes video of one of those, you'll see that the camera is mounted on a rig costing $10K or more. The rig stabilizes the camera and provides support for the focus controls, the zoom controls, the sound system, and many other things. Why is all this necessary? Very simple - because the camera does a horrible job at all this if left to it's own devices. Focusing during video is horrible, especially if anything's moving through the scene. What this means is that if you're buying an SLR and are planning on taking videos of your kids running around in the park, you will be sorely disappointed - nothing will be in focus half the time, and when the camera finally does achieve focus, the built-in mike will have picked up every grind and whirr of the lens as it moved back and forth. Canon has made some progress on eliminating these issues with their new STM lenses, but for now that's only two cameras and two lenses, and even that isn't perfect.


__________


Mirrorless: Known by many different names (ILCs and EVILs for example), the industry has seemed to settle on Mirrorless lately. This was the brainchild of a joint venture between Olympus and Panasonic, and was aimed on creating an interchangeable-lens camera in with a P&S body and DSLR-like image quality, and has been wildly successful. Olympus and Panasonic are still the major players with their Micro 4/3s system, followed by Sony with their NEX line. Many others have tried to take over market share from the big 3, but have been largely unsuccessful mainly due to inferior products. Nikon 1, Canon, M, and Samsung NX are examples of fairly unpopular systems.


Most mirrorless cameras have a P&S form-factor, albeit somewhat larger. With the exception of Olympus and Panasonic, the lenses are not interchangeable between brands, but adapters are available to convert practically any DSLR (or old rangefinder camera) lens to just about every system. Most adapters will not autofocus the lens, so it's not exactly a perfect solution.


Mirrorless pros:
--- Size and weight: This is the main draw for most people. While not exactly pocket sized once a lens is in place, it it still a fairly compact kit and could be carried in a purse with ease. It's more like a large P&S than a small DSLR.
--- Price: Generally cheaper than a DSLR of a similar level. The Panasonics and Olympus (Olympusus? Olympi? ??? ) especially seem to be on sale more often than not.
--- Image quality: About as good as an SLR, simple as that.
--- Expandability: Like DSLRs, these cameras are part of a system. In the last couple of months more and more third parties have started to make lenses too. Micro 4/3s is a much more robust system then Sony NEX though, with many more lenses available.
--- Video: Video on mirrorless cameras is insanely fantastic. Similar in quality to an SLR, but with the ease of use of a P&S. It focuses quickly, perfectly, and fairly quietly.


Mirrorless cons:
--- Lenses: Far smaller selection than SLRs, although to be fair most important lenses are covered.
--- Image quality: A DSLR will still have slightly better image quality, especially in low light scenarios.
--- Viewfinders: Most don’t have viewfinders at all, which make it harder to use in low light. Some of those have axillary finders you could out in the hotshoe (usually at exorbitant prices or some reason), but these are just to give you a general idea of what the camera is seeing.
--- Batteries: Uses batteries like a P&S (200-400 shots), while a DSLR usually gets around 2000 shots per battery.
--- Speed: Focusing, while worlds better than P&Ss, isn't quite up to DSLR standards yet, but that's getting better every day.
--- Control: While mirrorless camera offer the same level of control as DSLRs, very often you'll have to dig through menus to get to where you want to. The main point of mirrorless being cutting down on size, buttons and knobs were eliminated without mercy.


___________


Lesson Summary:
--- Point & Shoots are great for most everyday shooting. Cheap, more options than you could ever want, great image quality and video. Quite difficult (but definitely possible - I'll show you how) to get the 'pro' look.
--- DSLR are king when it comes to image quality, control, and expandability. For the best pictures in any situation, go for a DSLR. Video, not so much.
--- Mirrorless cameras are the best of both worlds, with some caveats. Amazing image quality, the best video, and fairly small and portable. Less control and versatility than an SLR, though.

___________


For the full lesson series visit the Learn Photography Master Thread.

____________________________________________________

Links to additional Info:

Learn Photography Master Thread: Lesson 2: Camera specs - What do they mean, and which ones matter to me?

Canon's DSLR naming scheme
Nikon's DSLR naming scheme
« Last edited by Curlyhead on August 10, 2016, 11:42:18 AM »

Author Topic: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread  (Read 383520 times)

Online Something Fishy

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #880 on: July 31, 2014, 04:39:01 PM »
SF, pop quiz for you.

What Nikon bodies have screw-drive AF versus ones that don't?

I have some really nice vintage lenses that supposedly will autofocus with the right body. Apparently a D5100 is NOT the right body (BIM lenses only!). Which ones should I be looking at?

D90/D7xxx and above.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #881 on: July 31, 2014, 04:49:01 PM »
D90/D7xxx and above.

Ah, so basically the 5xxx and 3xxx are the only ones that dont?
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #882 on: August 01, 2014, 12:14:26 AM »
Ah, so basically the 5xxx and 3xxx are the only ones that dont?

Its a shame, really. The 5xxx series has become a rather unsung hero in DSLR video- the codec and sensor are capturing more DR and detail than most other DSLR-in-movie-mode options, and the articulating screen makes the ergonomics better suited. I was hoping I could pick one up as a hybrid cam to compliment my current setup (m4/3 video cameras and Canon EOS still shooters) so I can actually make use of the AF ability on some of these for stills while still being an impromptu video cam (my bread and butter).

Looks like my cheapest option for screw-drive focusing is a used D90, right? That's a bit outdated sensor-wise and had awful video recording. Next up pricewise is a used D7000? Its a bit more than I'm interested in spending (looking originally at a D5xxx), but its not terrible. Nothing in between that I'm missing, right? Maybe an older body that was a well-kepy secret, like the Canon 50D was (50D was a better built camera with the same chip as the 60D, but cheaper because its an "older" model).
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #883 on: August 01, 2014, 01:00:34 AM »
Ah, so basically the 5xxx and 3xxx are the only ones that dont?

Also the old Dxx.

I got the D90 right when it came out. It was the first DSLR ever with video and the video was as lousy as you'd expect. Used or refurb D7xxx are always available, and you might want to consider a D300s (still current for some reason, but also widely available as used).
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #884 on: August 01, 2014, 01:14:05 AM »
Thanks!

I have the following Canon lenses -
18-55mm  58mm filter thread
50mm       52mm filter thread
100-400    77mm filter thread
10-18mm  67mm filter thread (the lens is on it's way)

I plan to sell the 100-400 and buy either the 70-200 f4 or f2.8 which is either 67mm or 77mm. Likely will go with the f4 (67mm).

Advantages of Lee: Less filters to carry around, ability to position the horizon line on a grad wherever you want, compatibility with the Big Stopper.

Disadvantages of Lee: Large, cumbersome, and finicky. You will need to use the largest filters for all your lenses. Polarizers are a major pain. Often much more expensive than regular ones. Quality is usually inferior (glass vs. resin, coatings, etc.). More prone to flare. Will be fingerprint-covered in no time. The Big Stopper is the holy grail of filters and is never in stock.

My suggestion: Think long and hard which filters you'd use on which lenses. Do you really need an ND grad on the 100-400? Would you ever use a dark ND such as the Big Stopper on the 18-55? Don't invest in a system for "everything" when you'll never use it for everything. Either get the filters you need for the lenses you need, or get the largest you need and use step-down rings to get it onto the smaller lenses. Even with a step ring, it'll be smaller and simpler (and most likely cheaper) than a Lee system.

The only thing the Lee system does that can't be done by traditional filters is the ability to move the horizon line on a grad.

Regarding an alternative to the Big Stopper, there are lots of dark NDs out there. Hoya makes a great one, and even the Tiffen is quite good. You could get them up to 10 stops. Or better yet (if you could afford it), get a vari-ND.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #885 on: August 01, 2014, 10:44:59 AM »
Advantages of Lee: Less filters to carry around, ability to position the horizon line on a grad wherever you want, compatibility with the Big Stopper.

Disadvantages of Lee: Large, cumbersome, and finicky. You will need to use the largest filters for all your lenses. Polarizers are a major pain. Often much more expensive than regular ones. Quality is usually inferior (glass vs. resin, coatings, etc.). More prone to flare. Will be fingerprint-covered in no time. The Big Stopper is the holy grail of filters and is never in stock.

My suggestion: Think long and hard which filters you'd use on which lenses. Do you really need an ND grad on the 100-400? Would you ever use a dark ND such as the Big Stopper on the 18-55? Don't invest in a system for "everything" when you'll never use it for everything. Either get the filters you need for the lenses you need, or get the largest you need and use step-down rings to get it onto the smaller lenses. Even with a step ring, it'll be smaller and simpler (and most likely cheaper) than a Lee system.

The only thing the Lee system does that can't be done by traditional filters is the ability to move the horizon line on a grad.

Regarding an alternative to the Big Stopper, there are lots of dark NDs out there. Hoya makes a great one, and even the Tiffen is quite good. You could get them up to 10 stops. Or better yet (if you could afford it), get a vari-ND.

Thanks!!

Totally hear you about the Lee system, many of my pics are taking during travel so the large and cumbersome issue will be very strong for me. Found on Amazon a Hoya 10 stop ND with multi coating for 60 dollars so that's not to bad at all.

I am thinking of perhaps going with 2 systems, 58mm filters for my 58 and 52mm threads, for which I have a CPL and 4 stop ND filter. Agreed I likely wouldn't use the 10 stop ND on my 18-55.

And as my needs increase (when I trade the 100-400 for the 70-200mm f4 and for the 10-18mm) I will buy either 67mm or 77mm filters for the larger ones with step up rings. For the 100-400 I don't really want any filters on it as it's so slow and I am just using it for wildlife. I really want the 10 stop ND to be compatible with the UWA.

What's your take on sunset filters? Do they really enhance the colors and do you use them?

Thank you!

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #886 on: August 01, 2014, 11:47:50 AM »
Thanks!!

Totally hear you about the Lee system, many of my pics are taking during travel so the large and cumbersome issue will be very strong for me. Found on Amazon a Hoya 10 stop ND with multi coating for 60 dollars so that's not to bad at all.

I am thinking of perhaps going with 2 systems, 58mm filters for my 58 and 52mm threads, for which I have a CPL and 4 stop ND filter. Agreed I likely wouldn't use the 10 stop ND on my 18-55.

And as my needs increase (when I trade the 100-400 for the 70-200mm f4 and for the 10-18mm) I will buy either 67mm or 77mm filters for the larger ones with step up rings. For the 100-400 I don't really want any filters on it as it's so slow and I am just using it for wildlife. I really want the 10 stop ND to be compatible with the UWA.

What's your take on sunset filters? Do they really enhance the colors and do you use them?

Thank you!

Good idea regarding getting two sizes. That Hoya is a great filter.

There are two types of sunset filters. One is sometimes called a reverse grad, and is basically a n ND grad with a darker middle, so something like 1 stop on top, three in the middle, and zero on the bottom. These work the same as a regular grad, but are more suited to sunsets with the sun closer to the horizon. The other type is typically a color grad, being clear on the bottom and orange or pinkish on the top.

The answer is simple. There are only two types of filters that cannot be done in post, and these are the polarizer and the ND (both regular and grad). If you're talking about the sunset ND, then yes, it's a good tool to have (although I personally don't use it). The color grads were made for film and are worthless in the digital age. Without a filter you can add any color you like later on, but if you shot with a color filter there's no way of getting rid of it in post.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #887 on: August 01, 2014, 12:25:01 PM »
Good idea regarding getting two sizes. That Hoya is a great filter.

There are two types of sunset filters. One is sometimes called a reverse grad, and is basically a n ND grad with a darker middle, so something like 1 stop on top, three in the middle, and zero on the bottom. These work the same as a regular grad, but are more suited to sunsets with the sun closer to the horizon. The other type is typically a color grad, being clear on the bottom and orange or pinkish on the top.

The answer is simple. There are only two types of filters that cannot be done in post, and these are the polarizer and the ND (both regular and grad). If you're talking about the sunset ND, then yes, it's a good tool to have (although I personally don't use it). The color grads were made for film and are worthless in the digital age. Without a filter you can add any color you like later on, but if you shot with a color filter there's no way of getting rid of it in post.

Is there a way to achieve the grad nd in post using 3 exposures kind of like an HDR effect or it won't come out as good as in camera? I know many people are into doing it all in camera vs, post however pushing aside the camera purist philosophy is there an actual difference in the final image?

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #888 on: August 01, 2014, 12:32:51 PM »
Is there a way to achieve the grad nd in post using 3 exposures kind of like an HDR effect or it won't come out as good as in camera? I know many people are into doing it all in camera vs, post however pushing aside the camera purist philosophy is there an actual difference in the final image?

It's not gonna be as good. With a top of the line full-frame camera you could get close, but it still won't be the same.
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Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #889 on: August 01, 2014, 12:52:16 PM »
The answer is simple. There are only two types of filters that cannot be done in post, and these are the polarizer and the ND (both regular and grad).
Doesn't a regular ND filter just uniformly decrease exposure by absorbing light evenly?

Why can't that be done in post with the exposure slider?

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #890 on: August 01, 2014, 12:57:38 PM »
Doesn't a regular ND filter just uniformly decrease exposure by absorbing light evenly?

Why can't that be done in post with the exposure slider?
You can't slow down the shutter speed in post if that was your desired effect.

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #891 on: August 03, 2014, 04:47:44 AM »
Cannon is having a big sale today on refurbished cameras including the t3i for under 400. Check their site

$336
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #892 on: August 03, 2014, 11:02:55 AM »
What say @somethingfishy about this deal.

Nikon D5200 Digital SLR Camera Body w 4 Lens Complete DSLR 24GB VALUE KIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171281856130

$779.95
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #895 on: August 03, 2014, 06:18:56 PM »
Alive again.
If anybody is looking for a telephoto lens, they have 55-250 IS (refurb) for only $120!
This is an excellent price for this lens.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/lenses-flashes/refurbished-lenses/ef-s-55-250mm-f-4-56-is-ii-refurbished-25643-1

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #896 on: August 05, 2014, 01:14:50 PM »
In the GoPro HERO3+ is there a difference between the black, silver and white editions other than the color? The difference in price on Amazon is huge.

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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #897 on: August 05, 2014, 01:16:54 PM »
In the GoPro HERO3+ is there a difference between the black, silver and white editions other than the color? The difference in price on Amazon is huge.

The black is the top model and the silver is more or less equivalent to the 3 black. The white is an even lower speced version.
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Re: Which Camera Should I Get? Master Thread
« Reply #898 on: August 07, 2014, 06:16:25 AM »
any good deals out there for the 70d?

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