Author Topic: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?  (Read 13182 times)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2013, 06:04:49 PM »
Not sure what heter you had to do that (We pasken אדם עושה דין לעצמו but that only allows you to move the car, not to penalize the owner), you are probably mechuyav to pay whatever it cost to clean and must ask mechila
He Probably meant: הממלא חצר חבירו כדי יין וכדי שמן: בעל החצר משבר ויוצא, משבר ונכנס (Bava Kamma 28a). I'm pretty sure that isn't Lahalachah though.
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Offline lfas25

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2013, 06:25:03 PM »
Source?

Medrash Raba Parshas Noach and other places.
It says gnevah stops tefilos from being heard.
*this is what my father told me
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2013, 06:31:05 PM »
He Probably meant: הממלא חצר חבירו כדי יין וכדי שמן: בעל החצר משבר ויוצא, משבר ונכנס (Bava Kamma 28a).
אדם עושה דין לעצמו but that only allows you to move the car, not to penalize the owner
I'm pretty sure that isn't Lahalachah though.

2.     שולחן ערוך חושן משפט סימן ד
 
יכול אדם לעשות דין לעצמו; אם רואה שלו ביד אחר שגזלו, יכול לקחתו מידו; ואם האחר עומד כנגדו, יכול להכותו עד שיניחנו, (אם לא יוכל להציל בענין אחר), אפילו הוא דבר שאין בו הפסד אם ימתין עד שיעמידנו בדין, והוא שיוכל לברר ששלו הוא נוטל בדין; מ"מ אין לו רשות למשכנו בחובו. הגה: מטעם שיתבאר לקמן סימן צ"ז סעיף ו'. וי"א דווקא בחובו ממש, אבל אם חייב לו בלא הלוואה, או שאין צריך למשכנו כי הוא כבר אצלו בפקדון או מצאו ביד אחר, מותר לתפסו (ריב"ש סי' שצו). וי"א דלא אמרינן עביד אינש דינא לנפשיה רק בחפץ המבורר לו שהוא שלו, כגון שגזלו או רוצה לגוזלו או רוצה להזיקו, יכול להציל שלו. אבל אם כבר נתחייב לו מכח גזילה או ממקום אחר, לא. ודווקא הוא בעצמו יכול למעבד דינא לנפשיה, אבל אסור לעשות על ידי עובדי כוכבים, מיהו אם עבר ועשה על ידי העו"ג, אם לא היה יכול להציל שלו בענין אחר, מה שעשה עשוי. י"א דלא מיקרי עביד דינא לנפשיה אלא כשמזיק לחבירו, כגון שמכהו ולכן לא יוכל לעשות אלא אם כן יוכל לברר שהוא שלו, אבל תפיסה בעלמא שתפסו למשכון, יכול לעשות בכל ענין, ויורד אח"כ עמו לדין.
Halachicly you may be able to smash his car in order to go out.
You would need that to be less טרחה than calling the owner/police/tow company.


Medrash Raba Parshas Noach and other places.
It says gnevah stops tefilos from being heard.
*this is what my father told me
There is a chiyuv and 'point' to daven even if RCH"L the davening will not be heard

Blocking a driveway (or squatting in a house) for many reasons will not come close to the halachic criteria of גנב (although there are obviously other דיני ממונות)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 06:37:39 PM by PlatinumGuy »
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Offline lfas25

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2013, 07:16:02 PM »


Blocking a driveway (or squatting in a house) for many reasons will not come close to the halachic criteria of גנב (although there are obviously other דיני ממונות)

stealing time?
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2013, 07:25:56 PM »
Calling the police might be a shaileh of mesirah.

The best option is to have a tube or a bottle of shampoo in your trunk.
You can use it to make smiles on the windows, or even write happy purim, why do you block my driveway? Or whatever.
No shailos involved and works wonderful.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2013, 09:31:58 PM »
stealing time?
Are you serious? Stealing time?????

There is no such thing in halacha. Time is not a monetary object that can be removed from it's owners possession.

Ever hear of a civil court accusing someone of stealing time?

Calling the police might be a shaileh of mesirah.

I wonder if you'd say that if someone was squating in your home... Ask your LOR but R Elyashiv told one of my שבעה קרובים it's not even a question and to go to law enforcement, and this was in E"Y with all the shailos of Dina Dmelachusa and the squatter could end up in jail.
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Offline rots5

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2013, 06:09:10 PM »
A can of motor oil on the windsheild works also.
this is the best. A taxi driver in israel got upset i closed his door to hard got out of the car and was a out to start a fight. Anyways every times i see him i am so tempted to throw eggs or do the oil on the windshield. 



@Dan, How do the Beachwood folks deal with this? :)
they kidnapp the kids for 10 yrs?!
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Offline rots5

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2013, 06:09:46 PM »
Bit back to the original q. I would slice his tired prob.
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Offline 972sg212

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2013, 06:35:25 PM »
IMHO it's stupid to do anything damaging to the vehicle because he knows where you live.
I usually call the police to ticket and tow him

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 07:24:50 PM »
It's not only drives ways that get blocked , mail boxes that are blocked in occasion will not get their mail .
Which I find very annoying as ppl don't take that into consideration at all!

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2013, 07:31:40 PM »
this is the best. A taxi driver in israel got upset i closed his door to hard got out of the car and was a out to start a fight. Anyways every times i see him i am so tempted to throw eggs or do the oil on the windshield. 
they kidnapp the kids for 10 yrs?!

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Offline lfas25

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2013, 09:16:53 PM »
Are you serious? Stealing time?????

There is no such thing in halacha. Time is not a monetary object that can be removed from it's owners possession.

Ever hear of a civil court accusing someone of stealing time?
I wonder if you'd say that if someone was squating in your home... Ask your LOR but R Elyashiv told one of my שבעה קרובים it's not even a question and to go to law enforcement, and this was in E"Y with all the shailos of Dina Dmelachusa and the squatter could end up in jail.

I know there is a halacha about גזל שינה to me that doesn't seem so far fetched from wasting someone's time. Though like you said in your second half, it is against the law to block someone's driveway so you have Dina Dmelachusa.
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Offline lfas25

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2013, 09:19:54 PM »

There is a chiyuv and 'point' to daven even if RCH"L the davening will not be heard


Is the chiyuv if it's at the expense of someone else??
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Offline hocker

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Re: Watta You Do When Someone Blocks Your Driveway?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2013, 09:21:40 PM »
I know there is a halacha about גזל שינה to me that doesn't seem so far fetched from wasting someone's time. Though like you said in your second half, it is against the law to block someone's driveway so you have Dina Dmelachusa.
Contrary to common thought, גזל שינה isn't halchically gezel rather it's a mussar ideal.
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