Author Topic: MLB Master Thread  (Read 615966 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3820 on: July 13, 2021, 01:25:52 PM »
Did Ivanka Trump mess up anyone's life? Joe Lieberman? Any other public figure you can point to whose level of orthodoxy has presented  big problem for the orthodox community?
Who is celebrating her chilul shabbos (if she is)?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3821 on: July 13, 2021, 01:27:03 PM »
I agree that he shouldn't be attacked. But he also shouldn't be celebrated.

No problem! I don't get why we make a big deal about these things to begin with. Athletic prowess has never been a virtue for us as a people.
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Offline Euclid

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3822 on: July 13, 2021, 01:33:53 PM »
What will happen when those who celebrate this or others try to explain to their employer how orthodox jews can't just walk to their jobs on shabbos?
Never gonna happen

Offline Lurker

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3823 on: July 13, 2021, 01:48:28 PM »
Who is celebrating her chilul shabbos (if she is)?

They weren't. They celebrated that an Orthodox Jew achieved a certain position. That position is very hard to maintain while adhering to strict orthodoxy, and we just didn't call out the times she may have been challenged in her observance of Yiddishkeit. People can laud an individual's accomplishments without scrutinizing the personal choices they make in their Judaism.

One thing is for sure: not one of these conversations is lessening any potential chillul Hashem. So why have them?
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Offline NTorch

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3824 on: July 13, 2021, 02:30:40 PM »
Kligman just got drafted by the Washington Nationals in the 20th Round - 593 overall.

https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2021/all/round/20

Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3825 on: July 13, 2021, 02:37:57 PM »
Being the only frum person at work, I have spent half a day speaking to people about it and asking questions. Some thoughts:

- All halachic shailos and whether you consider him frum or not aside, he's clearly the most observant Jewish person ever drafted.

- Regardless of whether he observes shabbos in accordance with anyone else's standards other than his own, he represents Jews on a national stage, and hopefully his behavior will reflect positively for us. To that end, I care less if he is not shomer shabbos, but more that he is a mensch.

- The odds of any draftee making the majors (even from the earlier rounds) are still slim. If I were his parent, and assuming that the team enabled him to keep "frumkeit" to the standards that I saw fit, I'd be willing to let him sign, and give him two years to play. If he's progressing, great, maybe let him stick it out, if he's not, he can quit and come to college. His signing bonus should be in the order of $600k or so (he was overslotted), enough to support him for the next few years, and maybe some leftover for his house in woodmere if he leaves the MLB to go on to a regular life.

- I find it funny that a lot of the discussion here is about shabbos, what about kashrus, and Jewish living? The D-backs 5 minor league teams (from low to high) are in Scottsdale, Visalia, CA, Hillsboro, OR, Amarillo, TX and Reno, NV. While I imagine each has a somewhat local Chabad house, non of these (short of Scottsdale) are within 3 hours driving from a major Jewish Community.  I think it's also safe to suggest that the Chabad houses may not be in walking distance from the stadium. What's he going to eat? Who's he going to date? Is he going to spend shabbos meals alone in his apartment?

- One of the downsides of his choosing to play by walking on shabbos - it certainly impacts other people. As an example, my children played in our local little league. From day one, I made it clear to the coaches, that my boys would not play on shabbos or Yom Tov. The problem was, our neighborhood has a lot of people across the religious spectrum - some people would play on shabbos if the game was within the Eruv and in walking distance, others only if it didn't conflict with shul. Again, I don't judge, but it would make the conversation with the coaches a little different - i.e. -"But Cohen and Schwartz let their kids play on Saturdays if they can walk it...." I imagine parents like me will now have to hear - "But hey, that kid on the D-Backs is Orthodox, and he plays on Saturday, why not you?"

On the lighter side:
- Can we get Mincha in the Bullpen?
- If he's in the bullpen, and we're above in the stands, can he be counted for the minyan?
- Does professional baseball player look good or bad on a Shidduch resume?
- How long before a slumping teammate asks him to 'bless' their bat :)

Offline Ergel

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3826 on: July 13, 2021, 03:01:29 PM »
Quote
- I find it funny that a lot of the discussion here is about shabbos, what about kashrus, and Jewish living? The D-backs 5 minor league teams (from low to high) are in Scottsdale, Visalia, CA, Hillsboro, OR, Amarillo, TX and Reno, NV. While I imagine each has a somewhat local Chabad house, non of these (short of Scottsdale) are within 3 hours driving from a major Jewish Community.  I think it's also safe to suggest that the Chabad houses may not be in walking distance from the stadium. What's he going to eat? Who's he going to date? Is he going to spend shabbos meals alone in his apartment?
These are serious questions for the people who really care about him
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3827 on: July 13, 2021, 03:40:26 PM »
- I find it funny that a lot of the discussion here is about shabbos, what about kashrus, and Jewish living? The D-backs 5 minor league teams (from low to high) are in Scottsdale, Visalia, CA, Hillsboro, OR, Amarillo, TX and Reno, NV. While I imagine each has a somewhat local Chabad house, non of these (short of Scottsdale) are within 3 hours driving from a major Jewish Community.  I think it's also safe to suggest that the Chabad houses may not be in walking distance from the stadium. What's he going to eat? Who's he going to date? Is he going to spend shabbos meals alone in his apartment?

Shabbos is in a different ballpark (sorrynotsorry). Kosher is not all that difficult to keep anywhere in the USA, and minor league play is brutal in terms of quality of living in general. So yeah, if this is something he wants to pursue, he decided he'd like to spend long endless nights alone, including Shabbos, and he probably ain't dating. I don't envy him, and if I found myself in a position to help him out I certainly would do my utmost to provide food and community. But you can't compare those other matters of Jewish living to Shabbos, when every time he plays people will judge if he is or is not allowed to, but unless he's on camera eating a cheeseburger, it's easy to assume he's keeping kosher.

- One of the downsides of his choosing to play by walking on shabbos - it certainly impacts other people. As an example, my children played in our local little league. From day one, I made it clear to the coaches, that my boys would not play on shabbos or Yom Tov. The problem was, our neighborhood has a lot of people across the religious spectrum - some people would play on shabbos if the game was within the Eruv and in walking distance, others only if it didn't conflict with shul. Again, I don't judge, but it would make the conversation with the coaches a little different - i.e. -"But Cohen and Schwartz let their kids play on Saturdays if they can walk it...." I imagine parents like me will now have to hear - "But hey, that kid on the D-Backs is Orthodox, and he plays on Saturday, why not you?"


Well, let's see how it impacts Elie Kligman, who was drafted by the Nationals and won't play on Shabbos

Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3828 on: July 13, 2021, 03:52:47 PM »
Shabbos is in a different ballpark (sorrynotsorry). Kosher is not all that difficult to keep anywhere in the USA, and minor league play is brutal in terms of quality of living in general. So yeah, if this is something he wants to pursue, he decided he'd like to spend long endless nights alone, including Shabbos, and he probably ain't dating. I don't envy him, and if I found myself in a position to help him out I certainly would do my utmost to provide food and community. But you can't compare those other matters of Jewish living to Shabbos, when every time he plays people will judge if he is or is not allowed to, but unless he's on camera eating a cheeseburger, it's easy to assume he's keeping kosher.
That's a very good point +1

Well, let's see how it impacts Elie Kligman, who was drafted by the Nationals and won't play on Shabbos

1. Elie Kligman is in a different boat - his draft position has no recommended bonus slot, which means he'd have very little leverage getting a signing bonus (as the 20th round pick, everyone else above him and he'd be the last guy they'd negotiate with if they had any leftover money). My guess is this was done either as a) A Favor to his father who is an agent, or b) knowing he's not likely to sign, they drafted him on the off chance he might want to sign, but knowing he has very little leverage. He also hasn't announced if he's committed to a college yet.

2. I wasn't so much concerned about the Steinmetzs and the Kligmans of the world, but more likely the Chaim Yankels in every community that play baseball in a league that isn't exclusively shomer shabbos.

Offline UKinNYS

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3829 on: July 13, 2021, 04:02:10 PM »

Offline TimT

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3830 on: July 13, 2021, 04:02:49 PM »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3831 on: July 13, 2021, 04:04:45 PM »
2. I wasn't so much concerned about the Steinmetzs and the Kligmans of the world, but more likely the Chaim Yankels in every community that play baseball in a league that isn't exclusively shomer shabbos.

It's gonna be confusing. No doubt. Just as an aside, there was a Rabbi who was on local TV speaking proudly about the newly built Eruv, and then got caught struggling to convey that it only helped with carrying, and not that now Jews could drive or do anything on Shabbos within the eruv  ;)

Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3832 on: July 13, 2021, 04:20:08 PM »
It's gonna be confusing. No doubt. Just as an aside, there was a Rabbi who was on local TV speaking proudly about the newly built Eruv, and then got caught struggling to convey that it only helped with carrying, and not that now Jews could drive or do anything on Shabbos within the eruv  ;)


That reminds me of people trying to explain why the second Flatbush Eiruv was kosher and the first one not.

True story - one of my kids non-Jewish little league coaches coached two other frum families on a different team (this coach had two sons and coached both teams). He asked me if we were going to miss the playoffs to go to Israel too. I laughed. I explained that those two families were relatives who were going to a family members wedding. He just assumed that we were all going on a pilgrimage.

Offline Dan

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Offline jj1000

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3834 on: July 19, 2021, 07:11:33 PM »
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3835 on: July 20, 2021, 10:25:17 PM »

Jacob Steinmetz has signed his contract with the Arizona Diamondbacks


Offline justaregularguy

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3836 on: July 20, 2021, 11:42:11 PM »
Jacob Steinmetz has signed his contract with the Arizona Diamondbacks

did he write BS"D at the top?
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3837 on: July 21, 2021, 10:33:06 AM »
sorry, but no. Chilul hashem is chilul hashem. What will happen when those who celebrate this or others try to explain to their employer how orthodox jews can't just walk to their jobs on shabbos?
It's all about perspective imo. Sandy Koufax was the best pitcher on the planet in 1965 - the jacob degrom of his time. He was supposed to pitch game 1 of the world series, and rocked the world when he didn't. It opened up the world to the importance of yom kippur. I would even argue a lot of us in the working place owe the "understanding" of our bosses about yom kippur in part to him. Is this not a major kiddush hashem? Did it matter that he was reportedly seen eating in a deli on the day he didn't pitch, or that he publicly violated shabbas etc? Even if you want to argue he is violating shabbas by walking to the park and pitching can't we view steinmetz the same way? If he makes it and the stories come out that he had to fly on his own and not with the team or sleep in the stadium or whatever potential things he may have to do, aren't those positive?
That's how I see this. Sandy broke some barriers. Steinmetz can break more. And I readily concede, Kligman can break even more than Steinmetz.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3838 on: July 21, 2021, 10:34:35 AM »
IMO food is a non-issue for a kosher keeping teenager anywhere in America in the year 2021. You've got amazon, walmart etc. Also every chabad and local jewish place will take care of him. Starting with my sister and brother in law who have been living in scottsdale doing kiruv for a long time and just bought the nice kosher restaurant out there kitchen 18. They're already making a steinmetz sandwich for him lol

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3839 on: July 21, 2021, 10:54:02 AM »
food is a non-issue for a kosher keeping teenager anywhere in America in the year 2021.

Yup, two words: Trader Joe's

They're already making a steinmetz sandwich for him lol

For those wondering, it's just a regular sandwich, except there are like 500 Modern Orthodox guys flipping out as you eat it.