Author Topic: MLB Master Thread  (Read 596810 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2540 on: November 02, 2017, 05:18:24 PM »
Show me someone who consistently throws 1 hitters and I will show you a 30 game winner.
1st base.

What is this?
2nd base.

Truthfully I don't care, I was just trying to put my money where my mouth was.
Shortstop   

If DDF can't get behind a Derek Jeter intangibles joke, I don't know where we are as a community.
3rd base.

The reason it was unbelievable because he should have been out by a mile.  :P
Center field   

A) Pitcher wins are not only an ineffective way to judge a pitcher, they might be the worst way. And your comment explains why
Left Field

So which of these applies to the two starters today?
Catcher

Only people paying high prices would be Houston fans. LA is dumping their tickets add will buy tomorrow in it happens.
Pitcher.

*You* made a stronger argument when you brought it up in the first place.
Pitcher. Especially one left in the game 7 too long who may or may not be on ace on some teams and possibly shouldn't have started game 7.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2541 on: November 02, 2017, 05:20:27 PM »
I love how you articulate how stupid it is and follow it with a "so what?" Exactly-what-you-said-what!
The point was you can't take any one item and look at it in a vacuum.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2542 on: November 02, 2017, 05:22:29 PM »
1st base.
2nd base.
Shortstop   
3rd base.
Center field   
Left Field
Catcher
Pitcher.
Pitcher. Especially one left in the game 7 too long who may or may not be on ace on some teams and possibly shouldn't have started game 7.
We are missing someone.  :)
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Offline Dan

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2543 on: November 02, 2017, 05:22:51 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2544 on: November 02, 2017, 05:23:24 PM »

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2545 on: November 02, 2017, 05:24:32 PM »
Let's do an experiment. Just randomly looking at this year's pitching leaders,  :)
You picked ones that fit your argument.  :)
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Offline TimT

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2546 on: November 02, 2017, 05:26:43 PM »

Online Yehuda57

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2547 on: November 02, 2017, 05:28:28 PM »
The point was you can't take any one item and look at it in a vacuum.

Answer this:
What information about a pitcher's performance does it tell you that you can't get from other stats?

You picked ones that fit your argument.  :)

Duh. I'm saying I didn't do a deep dive to find the best examples, I just looked at the first page and picked examples based on a quick glance. IOW, it is supremely easy to show how ridiculously stupid W/L is.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2548 on: November 02, 2017, 05:29:10 PM »
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Dan

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2549 on: November 02, 2017, 05:32:12 PM »
Nope. Already mentioned him
Naturally.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2550 on: November 02, 2017, 05:33:37 PM »
1st base.
2nd base.
Shortstop   
3rd base.
Center field   
Left Field
Catcher
Pitcher.
Pitcher. Especially one left in the game 7 too long who may or may not be on ace on some teams and possibly shouldn't have started game 7.

BTW, this post needed a "Don't read this on Tapatalk" warning.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2551 on: November 02, 2017, 05:34:27 PM »
Duh. I'm saying I didn't do a deep dive to find the best examples, I just looked at the first page and picked examples based on a quick glance. IOW, it is supremely easy to show how ridiculously stupid W/L is.
Lets make this so a fifth grader can understand.  :)
In your example you had two pitchers that looked the same. Their records are 17-9 and 10-13. You get to pick one of them only based on the stats you provided. Who are you going to pick?
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2552 on: November 02, 2017, 06:01:12 PM »
Lets make this so a fifth grader can understand.  :)
If you need to resort to insult rather than answer the questions, maybe I'm not the 5th grader in the argument?

I understand your point. You are saying it is not the best tool to use, but it still is *a* useful tool. You still haven't answered *how* it is useful.

In your example you had two pitchers that looked the same. Their records are 17-9 and 10-13. You get to pick one of them only based on the stats you provided. Who are you going to pick?

The stats I provided were rudimentary. If I was choosing a pitcher, it would be based on other stats. But I can guarantee you wins and losses wouldn't even be a tie breaker.

When you brought up the stat in the first place, you literally explained how the pitcher's record would change based on his team and nothing to do with his performance.

We're gonna keep going around in circles, so I'm gonna bow out.

Online skyguy918

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2553 on: November 02, 2017, 06:01:50 PM »
Lets make this so a fifth grader can understand.  :)
In your example you had two pitchers that looked the same. Their records are 17-9 and 10-13. You get to pick one of them only based on the stats you provided. Who are you going to pick?
The one with the lower salary or age.

ETA: LOL, just looked it up, and of the 2 Davies (the one with the better W/L) is younger and cheaper.

But seriously, beyond age/salary (which is more of a career outlook than a single season) you'd want to look at the underlying stats to see which is more likely to be able to maintain (or better yet improve) those numbers next year. And the answer to that is clearly Leake.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 06:08:25 PM by skyguy918 »

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2554 on: November 02, 2017, 06:19:33 PM »
If you need to resort to insult rather than answer the questions, maybe I'm not the 5th grader in the argument?
It was a joke. If you took it as an insult I apologize. I will ignore the shot you just took at me.
When you brought up the stat in the first place, you literally explained how the pitcher's record would change based on his team and nothing to do with his performance.
No that isn't what I said. Maybe this is a better way to say it. A pitcher will have a better record pitching on a better team with his same performance. The better team will most likely have better batting, fielding and bullpen. The opposite would also be true.

Look, you wouldn't even use W/L as a tiebreaker so we are in total disagreement.

As far as going in circles remember this is all about being the ace on most teams.

For choosing a pitcher the overwhelming factor is not ANY stat. You watch him pitch!!!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2555 on: November 02, 2017, 06:21:25 PM »
The one with the lower salary or age.

ETA: LOL, just looked it up, and of the 2 Davies (the one with the better W/L) is younger and cheaper.

But seriously, beyond age/salary (which is more of a career outlook than a single season) you'd want to look at the underlying stats to see which is more likely to be able to maintain (or better yet improve) those numbers next year. And the answer to that is clearly Leake.
Have you ever taken a test? Do you change the question before answering?  :)
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Offline TimT

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2556 on: November 02, 2017, 06:27:32 PM »
CM, Who’s favorite for next year ? :)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2557 on: November 02, 2017, 06:30:17 PM »
CM, Who’s favorite for next year ? :)
The master of search doesn't need me for that. If I had to guess probably the two chokes teams.
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Online skyguy918

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2558 on: November 02, 2017, 07:58:08 PM »
Have you ever taken a test? Do you change the question before answering?  :)
My answer is not changing. No matter what, their W-L records aren't going to play any role in deciding between them. If you want me to pick which one I'd want on my team going forward, I'm going to look at their age and contract situation. Leake has 4yr/$66m left on his deal (with a full no trade clause), while Davies earned half a million this year and won't be a FA until 2022. That's a no brainer. But if you throw contracts and salaries out and just need to pick whoever will pitch better for you in a season, looking at their stats (real stats, not nonsense like W-L) I'm taking Leake.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2559 on: November 02, 2017, 08:03:17 PM »
No big deal. If you don't want to answer the question as stated that's fine.
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