Author Topic: MLB Master Thread  (Read 175593 times)

Offline skyguy918

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2580 on: November 03, 2017, 12:20:59 PM »
I believe WHIP is the proper way to evaluate a pitcher. That stat is solely based on his performance.
Why are you replying to me?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2581 on: November 03, 2017, 12:22:31 PM »
;)

A-Ervin Santana

B-Sonny Gray
So you are giving me the old guy? What's the bet?
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Offline Amusch

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2582 on: November 03, 2017, 12:27:57 PM »
I'm mostly a sabre metrics guy, but I have a soft spot for old school so I'd like to weigh in on y wins MOSTLY don't matter but are not COMPLETELY useless.
There r obviously tons of bad luck losses and good luck wins, esp out of the bullpen, but the only limitation on looking out outcomes (Ks BBs HRs etc) is that pitchers pitch in games not on computers. So even though pitchers usually want strikeouts and outs instead of hits and walks, their #1 priority (hopefully) is to win the game. So for example, when up 8-0, they may groove fastballs to get outs, and in the process give up a HR or two, that every single stat will be affected by except for wins, which is literally the only one that pitcher is thinking about then. Now this is not often the case as usually a pitcher wants Strikeouts, but again, not always. Another example would be a pitcher trying to go deep who can tolerate some hits in order to get quicker outs, even though if he tried his hardest, he could probably strike out more guys and improve his stats. Again, MOSTLY useless but not COMPLETELY useless.


Offline skyguy918

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2583 on: November 03, 2017, 12:40:29 PM »
I'm mostly a sabre metrics guy, but I have a soft spot for old school so I'd like to weigh in on y wins MOSTLY don't matter but are not COMPLETELY useless.
There r obviously tons of bad luck losses and good luck wins, esp out of the bullpen, but the only limitation on looking out outcomes (Ks BBs HRs etc) is that pitchers pitch in games not on computers. So even though pitchers usually want strikeouts and outs instead of hits and walks, their #1 priority (hopefully) is to win the game. So for example, when up 8-0, they may groove fastballs to get outs, and in the process give up a HR or two, that every single stat will be affected by except for wins, which is literally the only one that pitcher is thinking about then. Now this is not often the case as usually a pitcher wants Strikeouts, but again, not always. Another example would be a pitcher trying to go deep who can tolerate some hits in order to get quicker outs, even though if he tried his hardest, he could probably strike out more guys and improve his stats. Again, MOSTLY useless but not COMPLETELY useless.
Everything you mention can be measured by something other than the W-L stat. I'm not saying it all exists right now, but you can observe and record it all without the arbitrary imposition of W-L.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2584 on: November 03, 2017, 12:51:55 PM »
What's everyone's thoughts on ERA?
How about batting average?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2585 on: November 03, 2017, 01:08:08 PM »
What's everyone's thoughts on ERA?
How about batting average?

Much better than W/L :)

They are both good, but incomplete. BA, for example, is missing walks and power. Someone who gets a hundred hits, all of them singles, is clearly not as productive as someone with 100 hits but has 20 home runs, 20 doubles and 5 triples.

What you need to do is add BA with on base and slugging - or OPS. (Then after that we can add base running, adjust for parks and opposing pitching, etc :)

Quick example: Player A had a 284 batting average, Player B had a 330 average.

Who you picking?

Player A:
.284   .422   .627 1.049 (Aaron Judge)

Player B:
.330   .380   .506   .885 (Avisail Garcia)
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2586 on: November 03, 2017, 01:12:57 PM »
Who you picking?

Player A:
.284   .422   .627 1.049 (Aaron Judge)

Player B:
.330   .380   .506   .885 (Avisail Garcia)
Game tied in the bottom of the 9th and a runner on 2nd, player B every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!!
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2587 on: November 03, 2017, 01:13:50 PM »
What's everyone's thoughts on ERA?
How about batting average?
ERA is just ok. I prefer fielding independent metrics - my favorite is Siera. ERA on its own doesn't normalize for babip luck, LOB luck, hr/fb luck. And it isn't park adjusted.

BA is terrible. It treats homers and singles the same, ignores positive outcomes like walks, isnt babip or hr/fb adjusted, and isn't park adjusted. Even just for measuring "contact ability", 1-k% is far more effective.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:29:22 PM by Redbull3 »

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2588 on: November 03, 2017, 01:17:12 PM »
BA is terrible. It treats homers and singles the same, ignores positive outcomes like walks, isn't park adjusted. Even just for measuring "contact ability", 1-k% is far more effective.
If you get time look up Dave Kingman and tell me where you rank him as a hitter?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:24:45 PM by ChaimMoskowitz »
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2589 on: November 03, 2017, 01:19:52 PM »
If get time look up Dave Kingman and tell me where you rank him as a hitter?
Slightly above avg hitter. He was adam dunn without the walks. And even though he was 6'6, the Judge comparisons are way off, again, because of the walks.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2590 on: November 03, 2017, 01:21:25 PM »
If get time look up Dave Kingman and tell me where you rank him as a hitter?
How do you rank Juan Pierre?

Offline beeweegee

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2591 on: November 03, 2017, 01:23:57 PM »
Game tied in the bottom of the 9th and a runner on 2nd, player B every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!!
What about if you can choose either one to join your team for next season?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2592 on: November 03, 2017, 01:27:54 PM »
How do you rank Juan Pierre?
Fast!  :)
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2593 on: November 03, 2017, 01:30:20 PM »
What about if you can choose either one to join your team for next season?
Can you ask me at the end of next year? I am not sold on Judge just yet and next year will answer that question.
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Offline beeweegee

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Re: MLB
« Reply #2594 on: November 03, 2017, 01:41:43 PM »
Can you ask me at the end of next year? I am not sold on Judge just yet and next year will answer that question.
Fair, but say you gotta chose now given the numbers you have...