Author Topic: MLB Master Thread  (Read 344174 times)

Offline mercaz1

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3380 on: January 14, 2020, 12:57:06 PM »
are these punishments enough to curtail this type of cheating or is it not enough?

how many owners would give up 4 picks, 5 million and their GM and Manager (technically only for a year) to win a World Series?

Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3381 on: January 14, 2020, 01:04:28 PM »
are these punishments enough to curtail this type of cheating or is it not enough?

how many owners would give up 4 picks, 5 million and their GM and Manager (technically only for a year) to win a World Series?

My guess is this is round one. The next team that does this might not get off as easily.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3382 on: January 14, 2020, 01:07:09 PM »
My guess is this is round one. The next team that does this might not get off as easily.

what more can they do unless they find that the owner was in on it then maybe they can ban or suspend him
 but I dont think they can take the team away and 5 million is the max that they can be fined under MLB constitution and that number is not high enough to deter this

Offline Ergel

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3383 on: January 14, 2020, 01:45:05 PM »
Don't matter at this point if an owner would do it - no way you get a manager or GM to condone this if it costs him multiple years away from the game
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3384 on: January 14, 2020, 01:48:52 PM »
It's also a false equation - no way that sign stealing has that much statistical chance of increasing odds of winning the WS - unless you're literally doing this during game 7 of the world series.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3385 on: January 14, 2020, 01:58:23 PM »
Would not put it past MLB to give him a lifetime ban.

I feel like if it were going to be a 1 year suspension plus whatever the red Sox investigation shows, they would have announced the first year yesterday. That they didn't tells me that these penalties will compound into something pretty severe.

-1 . Sets too strong a precedence. Especially with the pandoras box that might be opened.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3386 on: January 14, 2020, 02:06:04 PM »
The Astros bragged about recognizing when pitchers were tipping, specifically Beltran. It's covered in detail in "Astroball". To find out that some or all of that was actually illegal sign stealing is damming.

Come on, their pitch tipping recognition has been clear to see in some instances. Listen to other players talking about how Beltran has helped them. The cheating was bad, but don't underestimate their skills.
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Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3387 on: January 14, 2020, 03:46:33 PM »
what more can they do unless they find that the owner was in on it then maybe they can ban or suspend him
 but I dont think they can take the team away and 5 million is the max that they can be fined under MLB constitution and that number is not high enough to deter this

Lifetime bans, punishing players as well (even if it means fighting with the MLBPA over it in the next CBA). Look at what happens with drugs - first and second offenses are nowhere near as long as 3rd offense

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3388 on: January 14, 2020, 08:07:09 PM »
Cora fired. Or "mutually parted ways"

Offline brodes18

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3389 on: January 14, 2020, 09:02:22 PM »
Cora fired. Or "mutually parted ways"

Nice way to get fired. Since Cora was a big part of creating this scandal, I don't see him ever getting a job as manager again. Could see him going to TV.

Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3390 on: January 15, 2020, 09:26:21 AM »
Nice way to get fired. Since Cora was a big part of creating this scandal, I don't see him ever getting a job as manager again. Could see him going to TV.

That might take a while. I don't think Rob Manfred would appreciate anyone hiring him right now.

Offline Yonah

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3391 on: January 15, 2020, 09:31:47 AM »
It's starting to seem more and more likely that Beltran Gets fired - https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/carlos-beltrans-role-in-astros-scandal-poses-tough-questions-for-mets.html

Either way, the Mets need to come out and make statement - either that he's gone, or that we knew he was involved, and we know it won't be a problem - and they need to do it in the next couple of days.

Of course if they do fire him, they're now fighting with the Stros and Sox to find a manager
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Offline dealfinder11

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3392 on: January 15, 2020, 09:32:48 AM »
The Dodgers hiring Cora to be their manager would be the equivalent of ......... go!

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3393 on: January 15, 2020, 09:33:11 AM »
The Dodgers hiring Cora to be their manager would be the equivalent of ......... go!

Trump hosting a show on CNN

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3394 on: January 15, 2020, 09:47:11 AM »
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3395 on: January 15, 2020, 11:25:32 AM »
This video was a good find by that guy.  Cora's basically saying Beltran brought some "stuff" to the 2019 yankees that they didn't have before, that improved their offense. Although notably he specifically said "not devices". Who knows what to make of this but have to be pretty skeptical of a team that Beltran was just tied to.. Yankees aren't out of the woods.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3396 on: January 15, 2020, 11:30:33 AM »
This video was a good find by that guy.  Cora's basically saying Beltran brought some "stuff" to the 2019 yankees that they didn't have before, that improved their offense. Although notably he specifically said "not devices". Who knows what to make of this but have to be pretty skeptical of a team that Beltran was just tied to.. Yankees aren't out of the woods.

Do you listen to R2C2? Beltran is phenomenally gifted and smart, and has loads to share without cheating. One thing comes to mind: he taught Didi that as a lefty facing a lefty if it looks like a ball, it's a strike and vice versa. Didi said his performance after Beltran improved dramatically. Beltran was a switch hitter, never faced a lefty as a left. There were many other instances told by players. The guy's baseball smarts are off the charts.

But yes, the Yankees were named, and I think all teams cheated to an extent. I doubt though it came to the level of sending messages in realtime like the Astros did and the Red Sox with the Apple watches. I think that's why Cashman reported the watches thing, because he was confident the Yankees wouldn't get busted on something similar.
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3397 on: January 15, 2020, 11:45:26 AM »
Do you listen to R2C2? Beltran is phenomenally gifted and smart, and has loads to share without cheating. One thing comes to mind: he taught Didi that as a lefty facing a lefty if it looks like a ball, it's a strike and vice versa. Didi said his performance after Beltran improved dramatically. Beltran was a switch hitter, never faced a lefty as a left. There were many other instances told by players. The guy's baseball smarts are off the charts.

But yes, the Yankees were named, and I think all teams cheated to an extent. I doubt though it came to the level of sending messages in realtime like the Astros did and the Red Sox with the Apple watches. I think that's why Cashman reported the watches thing, because he was confident the Yankees wouldn't get busted on something similar.
I didn't listen. Yeah I don't doubt that he is smart and has a lot of great legal ideas - and these seem to be what Cora was alluding to. But neither Cora or Beltran have an issue breaking rules, so we don't really know how much of Beltran's contibutions were legal vs illegal.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3398 on: January 15, 2020, 11:48:53 AM »
But yes, the Yankees were named, and I think all teams cheated to an extent. I doubt though it came to the level of sending messages in realtime like the Astros did and the Red Sox with the Apple watches. I think that's why Cashman reported the watches thing, because he was confident the Yankees wouldn't get busted on something similar.
But you make a great point that at the end of the day, it would be Cashman's, not Beltran's, integrity in question here. Even if Beltran came to the table with illegal ideas, it would be Cashman's responsibility to nix those. This is literally why Luhnow was held accountable. And so far there are no questions of Cashman's integrity...yet.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: MLB Master Thread
« Reply #3399 on: January 15, 2020, 11:56:49 AM »
But you make a great point that at the end of the day, it would be Cashman's, not Beltran's, integrity in question here. Even if Beltran came to the table with illegal ideas, it would be Cashman's responsibility to nix those. This is literally why Luhnow was held accountable. And so far there are no questions of Cashman's integrity...yet.

I'm a huge Cashman fan, but I'm not naive enough to thing he couldn't be cheatingthe same as the other teams.

Once, one of my teachers was asking what lessons we can learn from cricket. I put up my hand and said we could learn honesty from the South African cricket captain, Hansie Cronjie. I gave a few examples of times when he walked off the field and gave himself out even though the umpires called him not out, and times when as the captain he withdrew the appeal against the other team and let the player play on even though he was technically called out. Google "Hansie Cronjie" and see how "honest" a player he was.
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