Author Topic: Olam Haba For Sale  (Read 38722 times)

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #140 on: November 04, 2013, 12:02:03 PM »
??? Need to learn me a lesson??  English please?!What do you mean by that?So Berel Wein became a gadol? Really?! :o
I don't think any one of them are "terrible" people ch"v.
I think he's pointing out that you're making a habit of going out of your way to take shots at Rabbonim that are mentioned, even when they're not particularly the subject of the discussion. And I agree that it's getting (more than) a little bit tiresome.

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #141 on: November 04, 2013, 03:16:25 PM »
I think he's pointing out that you're making a habit of going out of your way to take shots at Rabbonim that are mentioned, even when they're not particularly the subject of the discussion. And I agree that it's getting (more than) a little bit tiresome.
It's a free country; you're entitled to your opinion.

Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #142 on: May 06, 2015, 02:18:55 PM »

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #143 on: May 06, 2015, 06:22:12 PM »
Another opinion piece from our friend who went otd
http://forward.com/culture/306399/unsolicited-advice-to-the-hasidic-community/
He is one Pathetic soul. Needs to constantly justify why he went OTD. Its simple. He succumbed to his desires and had a poor Jewish education with no real backbone.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #144 on: May 06, 2015, 07:03:39 PM »
He is one Pathetic soul. Needs to constantly justify why he went OTD. Its simple. He succumbed to his desires and had a poor Jewish education with no real backbone.

I didn't quite take it that way. He's half joking and making fun of the extreme world of chassidus that he grew up in. And honestly I wouldn't begin to judge anyone who grew up in such a close minded and sheltered world.

I can't imagine anyone who has had a "good" Jewish education would ever call someone like that a pathetic soul.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #145 on: May 06, 2015, 07:15:27 PM »
He is one Pathetic soul. Needs to constantly justify why he went OTD. Its simple. He succumbed to his desires and had a poor Jewish education with no real backbone.
Very well-written and he makes excellent points.

How many in the community are only going through the motions without any feeling in their kishkes. In the old days, when the Rebbe had a only a small group of chassidim, and had a personal relationship with each of them, he was able to light a fire in their bellies that ignited their spirituality and brought them closer to Hashem. What impact do the Rebbes have today? Chassidish children now not only have to believe in Hashem; they have to believe in the Rebbe. They're taught that he's the "Heiligeh Rebbe" but their only relationship with him consists of pushing and shoving to get an occasional glimpse of him. This is Chassidus? It's no wonder people are leaving. To me it seems that for every one who leaves, there are ten others who have the same feelings but didn't have the guts. The yiddishkeit we are taught as children should be strong enough to withstand the Wizard of Oz and Star Wars. I would never pass judgment on a former Chassid, because I don't know I would have done much better in his circumstance. This community needs a revival much like the one that created it in the first place. And some of the chumras have got to go. They don't do anyone any good.

Pardon the rant.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #146 on: May 06, 2015, 07:52:46 PM »
Very well-written and he makes excellent points.

How many in the community are only going through the motions without any feeling in their kishkes. In the old days, when the Rebbe had a only a small group of chassidim, and had a personal relationship with each of them, he was able to light a fire in their bellies that ignited their spirituality and brought them closer to Hashem. What impact do the Rebbes have today? Chassidish children now not only have to believe in Hashem; they have to believe in the Rebbe. They're taught that he's the "Heiligeh Rebbe" but their only relationship with him consists of pushing and shoving to get an occasional glimpse of him. This is Chassidus? It's no wonder people are leaving. To me it seems that for every one who leaves, there are ten others who have the same feelings but didn't have the guts. The yiddishkeit we are taught as children should be strong enough to withstand the Wizard of Oz and Star Wars. I would never pass judgment on a former Chassid, because I don't know I would have done much better in his circumstance. This community needs a revival much like the one that created it in the first place. And some of the chumras have got to go. They don't do anyone any good.

Pardon the rant.
Doesn't mean you can go otd. I know someone who's parents forced him into a shidduch at 18. But he didnt go otd, rather he ran to a friends house, droped all the chasiddish minhagim in which he was forced to follow and became a litvak. If he (the writer of the article) understood that this way is right why drop it all?
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Offline sky121

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #147 on: May 06, 2015, 08:19:18 PM »
Doesn't mean you can go otd. I know someone who's parents forced him into a shidduch at 18. But he didnt go otd, rather he ran to a friends house, droped all the chasiddish minhagim in which he was forced to follow and became a litvak. If he (the writer of the article) understood that this way is right why drop it all?

Maybe he doesn't think it IS the right way. Or maybe he was so pulled in one direction that he felt the need to totally break free from it all.
Regardless of what we think to be correct or not it shouldn't take much to be able to understand how someone like that could leave it all.


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Offline Dan

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #148 on: May 06, 2015, 09:01:00 PM »
It's sad that his experience with Judaism was so sheltered that he couldn't handle being exposed to the outside world and couldn't ask questions to the right people.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #149 on: May 06, 2015, 11:20:30 PM »
It's sad that his experience with Judaism was so sheltered that he couldn't handle being exposed to the outside world and couldn't ask questions to the right people.
I don't think it's the shelter that hurt him. He says himself he was less sheltered than most others in his community. It's the lack of passion.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #150 on: May 06, 2015, 11:25:50 PM »
Because he had censored national geographic?
Plenty of good Jews are exposed to much more and come out just fine. He thinks the little exposure was the issue, but Judaism can handle the real world just fine when you're prepared for it.

More than the passion, it seems a good mentor would have done a world of difference.
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Offline efflpetzel

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Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #151 on: May 07, 2015, 01:04:07 AM »
He is one Pathetic soul. Needs to constantly justify why he went OTD. Its simple. He succumbed to his desires and had a poor Jewish education with no real backbone.
i got news for you, there are loads like him, halten fin gornisht & shokel along like zombies, the only difference between him & them is they kept the levish

Offline keemster26

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2015, 02:00:13 AM »
Because he had censored national geographic?
Plenty of good Jews are exposed to much more and come out just fine. He thinks the little exposure was the issue, but Judaism can handle the real world just fine when you're prepared for it.

More than the passion, it seems a good mentor would have done a world of difference.
+1

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2015, 03:21:01 AM »
Pardon the rant.

Not at all, that was very well said.

Offline sky121

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2015, 08:37:21 AM »
Because he had censored national geographic?
Plenty of good Jews are exposed to much more and come out just fine. He thinks the little exposure was the issue, but Judaism can handle the real world just fine when you're prepared for it.

More than the passion, it seems a good mentor would have done a world of difference.


It could be the little exposure growing up in such a sheltered world was the issue for him. I don't know his story that well. But the idea of wanting more and feeling like you can't get it and have no option but to leave doesn't seem all that far fetched for someone growing up in certain communities.
In many cases of chassidim going OTD it's a shame because many would have stayed frum had they felt like there was a way to do it in a frum velt still. So many of these people are not exposed to any other kinds of yidden.


My FFB black hater yeshivish cousin teaches in some Chassidish schools and loves to tell me the stories of how the kids ask him if he's frum because he has a closely shaved face beard or doesn't wear a beketche.  ::)
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2015, 08:55:27 AM »

i got news for you, there are loads like him, halten fin gornisht & shokel along like zombies, the only difference between him & them is they kept the levish

+1000

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2015, 09:00:03 AM »

Doesn't mean you can go otd. I know someone who's parents forced him into a shidduch at 18. But he didnt go otd, rather he ran to a friends house, droped all the chasiddish minhagim in which he was forced to follow and became a litvak. If he (the writer of the article) understood that this way is right why drop it all?

Because they are raised to believe that Litvaks and MO are goyim, so if they are already going off might as well go all the way. Said differently, they were never told that other forms of yiddishkeit are viable options.

Offline JoeCha

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2015, 09:07:49 AM »
OTOH, there are plenty of chassidish who are exposed to the same world he was/is exposed to and still have no issues being frum in heart and on face.

He doesn't say what other factors in his life made him go OTD.

I've yet to see statistics finding more OTD in the chassidish community.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #158 on: May 07, 2015, 09:16:08 AM »
OTOH, there are plenty of chassidish who are exposed to the same world he was/is exposed to and still have no issues being frum in heart and on face.

He doesn't say what other factors in his life made him go OTD.

I've yet to see statistics finding more OTD in the chassidish community.

No one said there are. If anything there shouldn't be. They try to keep em sheltered for a reason. If you're in a box and don't know there's anything else where exactly would you go?

Anyways no one said there were more or not.

"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline coralsnake

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Re: Olam Haba For Sale
« Reply #159 on: May 07, 2015, 09:50:39 AM »
Another opinion piece from our friend who went otd
http://forward.com/culture/306399/unsolicited-advice-to-the-hasidic-community/
His father was a Democrat, why is anyone surprised?  :P
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