Author Topic: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis  (Read 11657 times)

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2013, 03:09:58 PM »
Not on single family homes. on that i deff. concur. A tenant will cause damage and blame it on you then sec. 8 stops paying. Then you gotta  submit the proof (eg: video) that the tenant caused damage and get back pay. Not worth it. If this happens in a sec. 8 building with 50 units, it's not the end of the world.
I am talking about single family homes. It is a must you video tape the whole house with the tenant when they move in. They know about every scam the tenants try and pull. It does not work where I am at.
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Offline SamKey

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2013, 03:16:55 PM »
I know who he is too. read again what i wroteI'm also referring to low income tenants.
In a minority neighborhood? His dealings are in East New York, Bronx, Memphis to name a few.

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2013, 03:18:32 PM »
In a minority neighborhood? His dealings are in East New York, Bronx, Memphis to name a few.
do you know what New Haven looks like? and his main point seems to be low income and many times minorities fit that profile

Offline Drago

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2013, 03:41:34 AM »
bad neighborhood? You never drove through am abandoned neighborhood where just drugys live? Crime rate of 100% per person.
I used to bike through them on my way to Public Square every day.
It was amazing seeing all the properties being torn down, and the poor state of the homes that were formerly lovely.
And don't even mention the state of League Park... Sad what it's all been reduced to

Offline nikone

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2013, 10:39:36 AM »
Ok I have read enough and its time for me to step in!

I have invested in the past 4 years in low income properties. With my background and experience it is possible to clear a return of 10-15% on your money it depends on how much risk you're willing to accept for the higher end of the return.  Some examples, I have mutiple house in the portfolio, all of them are in areas of lower-income demographics. Some areas are terrible some are decent that I would live in if I had no choice (non-frum israeli). Here is an example of one:

Purchase price $65,000
Initial reno -     $10,000 - paint inside, outside, materials, and make a 2nd bathroom
Misc expenses - $3,000 - 1 month rental comm, and 1 month period to hold off the market to find a tenant and renovate.

Total 1 year expense: $78,000 - using this number as control for calculating the ROI (return on investment)

Yearly Expense:

Taxes:             $1300 a year
Management:  $1800 a year - 10% of the rent roll
Misc. Repairs:  $1000 - On the higher side, usually no more then $500 a year on average.

Total expenses: $4100

Rent Breakdown:

Yearly rent: $18,000 - $1500p/month

So you take $18000 - $4100 (total expenses) = $13900

$13,900 / $78,000 = .178 or 17.8% return on your investment

The only thing that is missing in this calculation is insurance that is not factored in to this particular scenario. If you want to minimize your risk further you can take out a policy which will be approximately $2000 a year that fully insures the house. In turn it will yield your to the following calculations:

So you take $18000 - $4100 (total expenses) - $2000 (insurance) = $11900

$11,900 / $78,000 = .1525 or 15.25% return on your investment


But wait there is more to this then the simple math I am showing you. The above house is an actual property I own and its not made up numbers. If you take in consideration that every year you have similar expenses on the move-in/out of a tenant then your ROI remains the same. If your tenant stays for an extra year your ROI goes up, and if you tenant stays B"H for 3+ years your milking the ROI to over 20% return!

The biggest problem I have experienced is locating the right management company. No one will replace your love and care ever, so thats not what you should be looking for in a managment. You should look for someone who is reliable, honest, and good at what he/she does. in my case it took 2 different management companies in the past 4 years to figure out one I was happy with.

The other hurdle  is finding the deals, which seems to be quite hard at the moment in the market that I am invested in. However there are a ton of places around the country that have hard hit areas that are going to produce high yields, finding them is the daunting task and setting up an operation to buy rent and renovate is difficult too.

I read this: http://matzav.com/israeli-real-estate-scam-targeting-frum-people and got pissed and decided to make this post and left the follwoing comment:

Quote
28. Comment from Israeli Investor
Time June 14, 2013 at 10:18 AM

You are simpley out of your mind! Stop scaring people off from building something for the future. Your 30 year experiance and my 5 years experiance in low income rental market is like night and day. I can evict with a total out of pocket expense of less then $1000, it would take 27 days to evict. My rents are much much higher on averagge 1500 a month for a 75-100K invesment. I have insurance if they burn down the house, and I am very happily getting a return of 12-16% on my investment after all expenses. So quite frankly please stop making it so bad, furthermore I agree investing from a foreign country probably a bad idea not because of the expenses, but its hard to manage from afar, Period the end.

There is money to be made, but its not going to be easy if you live so far away.

Your article should have instead of scaring people from investing enlightened them on how to find out if the house they are investing in is actually of value. Not the $1000 house being sold for $50k.
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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2013, 11:20:19 AM »
-1 though I don't believe it's a scam, I don't think it is sound advice to be advising kolel guys in Israel to be doing this for all the reasons stated above.

Offline Chaikel

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2013, 11:27:24 AM »
@nikone
So just to be clear, if I give you $100k, you will find the house arrange sale, cover all legal fees, manage/rent the house, and personally guarantee 10-15%? Because that's what these companies are doing.

Not to mention that public records are showing that they are flipping the houses for 200-1100% (yes I saw the records with my own eyes), so that would mean a minimum 45% return on the original purchase price.

If you can do that, kol hakavode. Madoff was offering 10% and people were on their hands and knees begging to invest with him. You should be a billionaire in no time.
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2013, 11:36:43 AM »
@nikone.
I'm sorry to say, but you totally missed the boat.

Obviously there's money to be made in this business,  but not when the houses that are being flipped are unoccupieable.

Did you see the listings in the link in the OP?

Offline nikone

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2013, 12:24:45 PM »
@nikone
So just to be clear, if I give you $100k, you will find the house arrange sale, cover all legal fees, manage/rent the house, and personally guarantee 10-15%? Because that's what these companies are doing.

Not to mention that public records are showing that they are flipping the houses for 200-1100% (yes I saw the records with my own eyes), so that would mean a minimum 45% return on the original purchase price.

If you can do that, kol hakavode. Madoff was offering 10% and people were on their hands and knees begging to invest with him. You should be a billionaire in no time.

Chaikel, I am not looking to bring more people on as investors, so no I am not willing to guarantee a return on anyone's investment. But I do know for a fact there are multiple people I can put you in touch with that will help secure the property, renovate, rent and manage for you if your interested. Your returns will vary but will definatly average 10% or more.

@nikone.
I'm sorry to say, but you totally missed the boat.

Obviously there's money to be made in this business,  but not when the houses that are being flipped are unoccupieable.

Did you see the listings in the link in the OP?

Yes I saw the listings, the houses that are for sale do not indicate that they are un-occupiable. You know for fact that you can not live in any of them?

Even if your right, a person can not live in them, but with 15k in renovation you can make them livable again.


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Offline SamKey

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2013, 12:36:46 PM »
Wow people live in the oilem hadimyon!

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2013, 12:45:24 PM »
Wow people live in the oilem hadimyon!
bec. u did it and got burned I'd bec. u don't "believe" it can be done even though many have some it?

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2013, 12:54:25 PM »
Chaikel, I am not looking to bring more people on as investors, so no I am not willing to guarantee a return on anyone's investment. But I do know for a fact there are multiple people I can put you in touch with that will help secure the property, renovate, rent and manage for you if your interested. Your returns will vary but will definatly average 10% or more.

Yes I saw the listings, the houses that are for sale do not indicate that they are un-occupiable. You know for fact that you can not live in any of them?

Even if your right, a person can not live in them, but with 15k in renovation you can make them livable again.

If people are getting so offensive when people attack a certain industry, although not personal at all. It is a sign that the industry is wacky totally, and they are not sure themselves if they are making money...

Come think of it. If a person is really confident in what he is doing, he doesn't give a S$%T what people are saying, as long as he makes decent money, he is the one to laugh...


#my2cents #Iamoutofthisdiscussionfromnow
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Offline nikone

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2013, 01:06:59 PM »
If people are getting so offensive when people attack a certain industry, although not personal at all. It is a sign that the industry is wacky totally, and they are not sure themselves if they are making money...

Come think of it. If a person is really confident in what he is doing, he doesn't give a S$%T what people are saying, as long as he makes decent money, he is the one to laugh...


#my2cents #Iamoutofthisdiscussionfromnow

Don't check out so fast, I am upset when someone takes it upon themselvies to flame about israeli people scamming... there is no scam here. I would do the same thing in there position. Purchase, renovate, rent and manage properties. I did some more research into the OP link. Looks like homes are being rented in the range of 6-800 a month. With taxes being around 1-1500 a year.  With the math applied if i purchased for $4000 + a whopping $20,000 renovation my first year expense would be at most $25000. Rent roll of $8400-1250 taxes-840 managment- 1000 insurance=  $5310 net ....


$5310 / $25,000 = .2124 or 21.24% ROI possible.

If I understand correctly everyone is upset that in stead of the foreigner paying the actual cost of the house they are paying $50K for it... apply the math again.

$5310 / $50,000 = .1062 or 10.62% ROI possible.

Ultimately if they found the house, renovated, rented and managed for those numbers you would be an idiot for not throwing your money at them if you lived 12 hours away.


Wow people live in the oilem hadimyon!

Why?
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Offline Saver2000

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2013, 01:14:49 PM »
@nikone
The bank isn't selling houses for $50 for no reason. Yes I said 50 bucks .

Un- occupiable doesn't necessarily mean that the house is in bad shape - we are talking about really bad neighborhoods with 100%  crime rate.

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2013, 01:37:51 PM »
@nikone
The bank isn't selling houses for $50 for no reason. Yes I said 50 bucks .

Un- occupiable doesn't necessarily mean that the house is in bad shape - we are talking about really bad neighborhoods with 100%  crime rate.


Understood, not talking about the specifics, I don't know the area, market or otherwise.

Wish I could learn a little more about the area.



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Offline yaakov s

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2013, 01:40:00 PM »
Understood, not talking about the specifics, I don't know the area, market or otherwise.

Wish I could learn a little more about the area.
Your saying that its possible to  make money in Real Estate ,to prove that what the OP is talking about isn't a scam.

Thats like saying Madoff wasn't a scam because its possible to make money in stocks

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2013, 01:48:37 PM »
Understood, not talking about the specifics, I don't know the area, market or otherwise.

Wish I could learn a little more about the area.
:o :o  :o


Your saying that its possible to  make money in Real Estate ,to prove that what the OP is talking about isn't a scam.

Thats like saying Madoff wasn't a scam because its possible to make money in stocks
+100

Well said.

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2013, 02:11:34 PM »
Your saying that its possible to  make money in Real Estate ,to prove that what the OP is talking about isn't a scam.

Thats like saying Madoff wasn't a scam because its possible to make money in stocks
:o :o  :o

+100

Well said.

-1 the matzav article (which I'm assuming the op and the article are using the same source - or are the source )
refers to the general concept
A more accurate statement would be, "the stock market is a scam, just look at Maddof".

Offline SamKey

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2013, 01:53:29 PM »
bec. u did it and got burned I'd bec. u don't "believe" it can be done even though many have some it?
I thought we already settled our argument. Yes you are right, it is possible and can be lucrative. But we are referring to the scam of buying houses and flipping it (without any changes) for 3-4x the price!

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: New Real Estate Scam Targeting Israelis/ American Israelis
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2013, 02:10:28 PM »
Your saying that its possible to  make money in Real Estate ,to prove that what the OP is talking about isn't a scam.

Thats like saying Madoff wasn't a scam because its possible to make money in stocks

Very well put.