Author Topic: Edward Snowden Hero or Villain? (Read 21727 times)

Ergel · « **Reply #40 on:** June 12, 2013, 07:57:48 PM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on June 12, 2013, 07:37:41 PM

Probably people who don't want to be snooped on...

If you're doing something illegal then you should be caught, and if not who cares

CountValentine · « **Reply #41 on:** June 12, 2013, 08:01:18 PM »

Quote from: Fan of Dan on June 12, 2013, 07:47:58 PM

Like him or not I admire his guts.

If he had any guts he would stay in this country and accept the consequences for his action. Instead he decided to run away like the coward he is.

LeeW · « **Reply #42 on:** June 12, 2013, 08:10:45 PM »

This is a very simplistic way of looking at things. They are two large issues with the government spying on citizens.
A- no one can be so

Quote from: Ergel on June 12, 2013, 07:57:48 PM

If you're doing something illegal then you should be caught, and if not who cares

Quote from: Ergel link[quote author=Ergel on June 12, 2013, 07:57:48 PM

If you're doing something illegal then you should be caught, and if not who cares

This is a very simplistic way of looking at things.

This is a very simplistic way of looking at things. They are two large issues with the government spying on citizens.
A- no one can be so sure of themselves that they have never broken any laws, since there are way too many laws to know about. Have you ever gone into Canada and bought whiskey, brought it into the US and not reported it at the border? I unknowingly once brought some fruit from Israel in my luggage into the Us. These can all be considered crimes.
B- the government has acces to to everything in your online history. There are plenty of legal things whicj are rmbatrasing to people. Giving all this info to those powers gives them a big oppurtunity to blackmail the populaton

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #43 on:** June 12, 2013, 08:34:46 PM »

Quote from: Ergel on June 12, 2013, 07:57:48 PM

If you're doing something illegal then you should be caught, and if not who cares

Who's guaranteeing that it will only be used against people who have done something illegal?
Imagine if Nixon would have had access to all that information during Watergate.

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #44 on:** June 12, 2013, 10:35:24 PM »

For those saying:

Quote from: CountValentine on June 12, 2013, 07:41:34 PM

...and people that are out to hurt this country.

Quote from: Ergel on June 12, 2013, 07:57:48 PM

If you're doing something illegal then you should be caught, and if not who cares

I found this piece very well written.

meshugener · « **Reply #45 on:** June 12, 2013, 10:50:46 PM »

Quote from: CountValentine on June 12, 2013, 08:01:18 PM

If he had any guts he would stay in this country and accept the consequences for his action. Instead he decided to run away like the coward he is.

He's not supposed to be an idiot.

Fan of Dan · « **Reply #46 on:** June 12, 2013, 11:18:37 PM »

Quote from: meshugener on June 12, 2013, 10:50:46 PM

He's not supposed to be an idiot.

I agree with that I am just trying to decide why he chose HKG over say Russia or Ecuador. Why choose a country with an extradition treaty. I know they have free speech laws but he is running a risk.

jj1000 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 13, 2013, 12:32:46 AM »

Quote from: Fan of Dan on June 12, 2013, 11:18:37 PM

I agree with that I am just trying to decide why he chose HKG over say Russia or Ecuador. Why choose a country with an extradition treaty. I know they have free speech laws but he is running a risk.

CX F had good availability?

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #48 on:** June 13, 2013, 12:36:56 AM »

Quote from: Fan of Dan on June 12, 2013, 11:18:37 PM

I agree with that I am just trying to decide why he chose HKG over say Russia or Ecuador. Why choose a country with an extradition treaty. I know they have free speech laws but he is running a risk.

HK is one of the best places in the world to live in, Russia and Ecuador are... not

If his bet is correct that HK won't extradite him (it is possible he has spoken to officials) it will give him more legitimization as opposed to a bandit in hiding. The balance of power between China and the US is in his favor here.

PlatinumGuy · « **Reply #49 on:** June 13, 2013, 12:38:34 AM »

Quote from: Ergel on June 12, 2013, 07:57:48 PM

If you're doing something illegal then you should be caught, and if not who cares

And what will you say if NYC asseres Bris Milah? There other (albeit unique) situations where halacha and the law contradict, what will you do?

CountValentine · « **Reply #50 on:** June 13, 2013, 12:48:12 AM »

Quote from: meshugener on June 12, 2013, 10:50:46 PM

He's not supposed to be an idiot.

To late for that.

Ergel · « **Reply #51 on:** June 13, 2013, 01:15:07 AM »

Quote from: PlatinumGuy on June 13, 2013, 12:38:34 AM

And what will you say if NYC asseres Bris Milah? There other (albeit unique) situations where halacha and the law contradict, what will you do?

I doubt that they will use these taps to catch petty criminals. not worth their time and effort

LeeW · « **Reply #52 on:** June 13, 2013, 01:56:17 AM »

Quote from: Ergel on June 13, 2013, 01:15:07 AM

I doubt that they will use these taps to catch petty criminals. not worth their time and effort

1- You have no way to know what they perceive as "worth their while", so you are taking a risk by allowing them to see your actions.
2- The point that these small things are illegal will give ammunition to police to do as they wish to you. So for example, say you do bris milah and yes the feds aren't rushing to catch you because it is not worth their time. But then one day you get into a fight with a traffic cop over a ticket. This cop can now access your file, find something in there that would allow him to arrest you. Or you get harassed by cops at an Israel demonstration for doing nothing perhaps just standing around. The feds know have ammunition to justify arresting you, nothing to do with your actions at the event. This in turn causes less people to go to demonstrations, or argue with federal officers as they fear getting tripped up on some minor detail in their past. This obviously would be fatal to democracy in America as we know it.