Author Topic: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA  (Read 15721 times)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2013, 06:20:31 PM »
What Yeshiva did you go to? It's a B'ferisha Pasuk in Devarim Chaf Hay (pasuk tes vav and tes zayin). 
IMHO There's a difference between when the Torah gives a whole list of things that we shouldn't do and then concludes with כִּי תוֹעֲבַת ה' אֱלֹהֶיךָ כָּל-עֹשֵׂה אֵלֶּה  כֹּל עֹשֵׂה עָוֶל. and when the Torah says it specifically about a specific act.
Of course we know that הוי זהיר במצוה קלה כבחמורה , but still you should not confuse the Kalah and the Chamurah....

Offline Ergel

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Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline elikay

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2013, 12:51:43 AM »
IMHO There's a difference between when the Torah gives a whole list of things that we shouldn't do and then concludes with כִּי תוֹעֲבַת ה' אֱלֹהֶיךָ כָּל-עֹשֵׂה אֵלֶּה  כֹּל עֹשֵׂה עָוֶל. and when the Torah says it specifically about a specific act.
Of course we know that הוי זהיר במצוה קלה כבחמורה , but still you should not confuse the Kalah and the Chamurah....
He's not looking for answers...

Offline steeeveknowsbest

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2013, 01:23:52 AM »
Well done. I'm impressed
+1
it's so refreshing to read a statement that doesn't water down or back down from our beliefs one iota yet manages to convey "darcheah darchai noam v'chol nisivoseha shalom" ; that we are not hateful; that we understand that the government is a system that is made to cater to all equally and we cannot expect it to always conform to our viewpoint

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2013, 01:33:26 AM »
...that we understand that the government is a system that is made to cater to all equally and we cannot expect it to always conform to our viewpoint
Seems so simple.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2013, 01:41:42 AM »
+1
it's so refreshing to read a statement that doesn't water down or back down from our beliefs one iota yet manages to convey "darcheah darchai noam v'chol nisivoseha shalom" ; that we are not hateful; that we understand that the government is a system that is made to cater to all equally and we cannot expect it to always conform to our viewpoint
משנאיך ה' אשנא
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline steeeveknowsbest

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2013, 02:21:58 AM »
משנאיך ה' אשנא
that doesn't mean that "we" are hateful, it means that there are times that we should hate, it means that if one cultivates an appreciation an a understanding of ratzon hashem then he recognizes that certain things or people are hateful to G-d and therefor us. One need not look further than Pinchos, to see an act that seems violent and terrible but in essence is the epitome of peace (brisi shalom, see sanhedrin 82b; also Rashi in the begining of the parsha that G-d testifies that his actions come from the midda of Ahroh haKohen i.e. Ohev shalom v'rodef shalom) and all this is because "beKano es Kinasi" On behalf of hashem!

Offline SamKey

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2013, 02:28:29 AM »
that doesn't mean that "we" are hateful, it means that there are times that we should hate, it means that if one cultivates an appreciation an a understanding of ratzon hashem then he recognizes that certain things or people are hateful to G-d and therefor us. One need not look further than Pinchos, to see an act that seems violent and terrible but in essence is the epitome of peace (brisi shalom, see sanhedrin 82b; also Rashi in the begining of the parsha that G-d testifies that his actions come from the midda of Ahroh haKohen i.e. Ohev shalom v'rodef shalom) and all this is because "beKano es Kinasi" On behalf of hashem!
Well said

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Supreme Court Kicks the Can Down the Road on Gay Marriage
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2013, 03:07:20 AM »
My beef is with our focus.  Dishonesty in business is a clear Toeva. I've heard from too many businessman that they dread doing business with other Frum people. I doubt I'm alone. Where is the protest and uproar?  These are Deoraissah's being committed daily by Frum people.  Instead, we focus on aveiros being committed by those outside our community.

Similarly, we have Frum adults being over on Toeva with children. Instead of doing all we can to stop this, we terrorize the victim and his family.

People dread certain frum businessmen bc of their attitude, not because of dishonesty. In fact most business people will tell you its much easier to rely on frum jews.

I don't believe there are more scams in the frum world, but definitely people are undereducated and scammers can get away with schemes that wouldn't last a day anywhere else. (I mean seriously, buying a $50000 house without knowing anything at all?)

Nobody terrorizes victims. What is not being done when you say we're not doing everything we can? The fact of the matter is that going public isn't always the best solution.


And finally nobody cares that they live with each other. We're not talking about legalizing the maisa toeva itself. We're not trying to tell them what to do or to worry about their aveiros. The issue we have is a society accepting a form of living which the torah considers (at least in certain ways) worst than adultery. How are you going to tell your kids that's not marriage, when the NYC mayor is so 'married'?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2013, 03:10:49 AM »
IMHO There's a difference between when the Torah gives a whole list of things that we shouldn't do and then concludes with כִּי תוֹעֲבַת ה' אֱלֹהֶיךָ כָּל-עֹשֵׂה אֵלֶּה  כֹּל עֹשֵׂה עָוֶל. and when the Torah says it specifically about a specific act.
Of course we know that הוי זהיר במצוה קלה כבחמורה , but still you should not confuse the Kalah and the Chamurah....
Its a mefurasha gemara לא נחשדו ישראל על משכב זכר
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2013, 03:26:07 AM »
Can we add a poll? Would like see the results on how everyone feels if the Supreme Court made the right decision based on the constitution. I wonder if it is possible for some to do this (keep religion out of it) seeing how the ethics thread went.
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Offline SamKey

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Re: Supreme Court Kicks the Can Down the Road on Gay Marriage
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2013, 03:35:15 AM »
People dread certain frum businessmen bc of their attitude, not because of dishonesty. In fact most business people will tell you its much easier to rely on frum jews.

I don't believe there are more scams in the frum world, but definitely people are undereducated and scammers can get away with schemes that wouldn't last a day anywhere else. (I mean seriously, buying a $50000 house without knowing anything at all?)

Nobody terrorizes victims. What is not being done when you say we're not doing everything we can? The fact of the matter is that going public isn't always the best solution.


And finally nobody cares that they live with each other. We're not talking about legalizing the maisa toeva itself. We're not trying to tell them what to do or to worry about their aveiros. The issue we have is a society accepting a form of living which the torah considers (at least in certain ways) worst than adultery. How are you going to tell your kids that's not marriage, when the NYC mayor is so 'married'?
+1 Just had a hard time putting it down right but I believe you did the topic justice.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2013, 05:06:39 AM »
Can we add a poll? Would like see the results on how everyone feels if the Supreme Court made the right decision based on the constitution.
Who cares? Or better-what difference dies that make?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline htg123

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2013, 05:17:24 AM »
Who cares? Or better-what difference dies that make?

Exactly right... having some debate about it is just plain stupid....In 5 years from now i think ppl will finally face the facts that this topic has taken this world by storm...and it will continue to win, country after country...Its the reality...and we really gotta move on. If you ever want the GOP to win an election again in the near future, they gotta change their minds on this topic or the economy will be in the dumps for a looooooooong time

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2013, 07:38:50 AM »
Who cares?
Someone must or there would be no thread about it or posts in that thread.
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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2013, 07:41:19 AM »
Exactly right... having some debate about it is just plain stupid....
By giving your opinion in this thread I believe you are participating in this debate you call stupid?
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2013, 08:22:29 AM »
Can we add a poll? Would like see the results on how everyone feels if the Supreme Court made the right decision based on the constitution. I wonder if it is possible for some to do this (keep religion out of it) seeing how the ethics thread went.

I don't think the Oilum here is capable of separating the two. 

Offline Ergel

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2013, 09:35:10 AM »
Someone must or there would be no thread about it or posts in that thread.
Maybe the thread was about the religious ramifications of the decision?
And as much as there is separation between church and state in this country it is clearly one based on "judeo-Christian" values
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2013, 10:19:11 AM »
Maybe the thread was about the religious ramifications of the decision?
Then the title needs to be changed and the name of the forum to DDRF.  :)
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2013, 10:21:36 AM »
Then the title needs to be changed and the name of the forum to DDRF.  :)
I think that was always assumed. Nothing wrong with the thread title.

And you didn't respond to this
And as much as there is separation between church and state in this country it is clearly one based on "judeo-Christian" values

And apparently 4/9 of the supreme court did not think it was the correct decision based on the constitution
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.