Author Topic: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA  (Read 15725 times)

Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #80 on: July 01, 2013, 02:01:52 PM »
And you think your joking?! Just wait 20-30 years when people (Sicko's) will want to "legaly" marry their Pig's, Dogs etc; And of course they have a constitutional right. Up until the 1970's the sickness called "homosexuality" was labeld as a mental disorder.
Call me naive but I doubt it.
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Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #81 on: July 01, 2013, 02:12:15 PM »
Call me naive but I doubt it.

This whole "slippery slope" argument from Homosexuality to Bestiality doesn't really work when trying to use that future outcome as a warning. It doesn't seem plausible, and it also compares a human relationship to one with animals.

The way that argument works is a logical device pointing out that according to the rationale used to make Sodomy legal (Lawrence Vs. Texas), all of the other taboo behaviors could also be legalized. That would include bestiality, incest, bigamy and others.

This argument was actually used in the dissenting opinions of the minority in that decision.
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2013, 02:24:48 PM »
Call me naive but I doubt it.

And do you think the founding fathers envisioned guys marrying guys and legally calling it marriage?!
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Offline U-no-me!

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #83 on: July 01, 2013, 02:26:19 PM »
And does anyone even consider the constitutional rights of the "unfortunate" children that these so called "couples" are now able to adopt?!
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Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2013, 02:33:52 PM »
This whole "slippery slope" argument from Homosexuality to Bestiality doesn't really work when trying to use that future outcome as a warning. It doesn't seem plausible, and it also compares a human relationship to one with animals.

The way that argument works is a logical device pointing out that according to the rationale used to make Sodomy legal (Lawrence Vs. Texas), all of the other taboo behaviors could also be legalized. That would include bestiality, incest, bigamy and others.

This argument was actually used in the dissenting opinions of the minority in that decision.
I don't disagree with the slippery slope argument, I think its true, and I think there might come a time when all of the above becomes legal.  But I just don't see there being a call to legalize marriage between human and beast.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2013, 02:35:49 PM »
On a related note, can the constitutional scholars among us explain to me how a ban on same-sex incest can be valid under Lawrence v. Texas?  Where is the compelling state interest?
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Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #86 on: July 01, 2013, 02:39:23 PM »
On a related note, can the constitutional scholars among us explain to me how a ban on same-sex incest can be valid under Lawrence v. Texas?  Where is the compelling state interest?

If you brought the case up to the Supreme Court, they would likely invalidate such a law. If they didn't, someone would be able to appeal Lawrence and have that invalidated on the basis of the incest case.
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Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #87 on: July 01, 2013, 02:42:03 PM »
On a related note, can the constitutional scholars among us explain to me how a ban on same-sex incest can be valid under Lawrence v. Texas?  Where is the compelling state interest?

From Scalia's dissent:

"State laws against bigamy, same-sex marriage, adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, bestiality, and obscenity are likewise sustainable only in light of Bowers' validation of laws based on moral choices. Every single one of these laws is called into question by today's decision; the Court makes no effort to cabin the scope of its decision to exclude them from its holding."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=539&page=558
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2013, 02:57:20 PM »
From Scalia's dissent:

"State laws against bigamy, same-sex marriage, adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, bestiality, and obscenity are likewise sustainable only in light of Bowers' validation of laws based on moral choices. Every single one of these laws is called into question by today's decision; the Court makes no effort to cabin the scope of its decision to exclude them from its holding."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=539&page=558
And what with the majority say?
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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2013, 03:56:48 PM »
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Ergel

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2013, 05:03:49 PM »
:P
Because then we could know what the decision would be if someone brought a case about bestiality
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Offline SamKey

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2013, 05:40:47 AM »
On a side note, is there any known cure for homosexuals to change their orientation to heterosexual? (It appears that there must be, for if not, the Torah can't expect a homosexual to ever get married.)
Steven Colbert says that man could not have been born gay since man was created in the image of God and God is not gay for it says "and he created them Man and Woman"

Offline meshugener

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2013, 08:30:55 AM »
What. Do. We. Care. What. They. Do.
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Offline Moshe123

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2013, 08:45:34 AM »
What. Do. We. Care. What. They. Do.

Parshas Noach.

Offline meshugener

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2013, 09:00:28 AM »
I highly doubt you'll not be in the taiveh if you don't commit any hashchasah :)
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Offline Moshe123

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2013, 09:02:48 AM »
I highly doubt you'll not be in the taiveh if you don't commit any hashchasah :)

There won't be credit card points and tourist sites.

Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2013, 09:16:59 AM »
What. Do. We. Care. What. They. Do.

I don't recall any Talmudical discussions of us having a responsibility to convince the gentiles not to behave in a depraved manner. The Talmud is clear that the gentiles of their time were suspected of doing these types of things.

On the other hand, it is not really about "What. They. Do.", rather about the change in culture so that it is becoming impossible to ignore, and it will become necessary at some to have to explain to little children. Already NYC has laws about teaching sexuality in middle school. The insulated way that many Orthodox Jews like to raise their families in is become encroached upon by the "we define ourselves by our sexuality" culture, of which gays are a part.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2013, 10:39:18 AM »
I highly doubt you'll not be in the taiveh if you don't commit any hashchasah :)
Yikes! I wouldn't want to bet on that
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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2013, 11:13:28 AM »
And do you think the founding fathers envisioned guys marrying guys and legally calling it marriage?!
If you want to make a good argument don't use this line. Simplest reply is "Do you think the founding fathers envisioned blacks being free when they said all men are created equal?" Much has changed since the 1770's.
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: Supreme Court Strikes Down DOMA
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2013, 12:22:01 PM »
If you want to make a good argument don't use this line. Simplest reply is "Do you think the founding fathers envisioned blacks being free when they said all men are created equal?" Much has changed since the 1770's.

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