NYC Vs. OOT

[DH Data Recovery]

No fights in NYC?

Umm Bobov, Satmar, Viznitz, Eiruv, Chesed organizations battling each other that's just a start.
How about other issues in NY - school systems etc, kids battling with religion in an awful way (which isn't usually as bad in smaller communities) and so much more!

[Baruch]

It is hilarious sometimes for a big city kid like me, when I go to a certain OOT community, every yukel has an opinion about everything, and every yukel's opinion is 2% of the community's opinion and carries weight. At least in big cities the yukels don't fight and get involved in politics - their opinion doesn't matter.

So for a yukel like me, living in a big community keeps me out of fighting and politics. 

[DH Data Recovery]

well for most yukels in NY the opposite is true, they get dragged into every fight by affiliation. Like every chassidus that fights, like the eruv wars and similar  fights that come up all the time

[Baruch]

well for most yukels in NY the opposite is true, they get dragged into every fight by affiliation. Like every chassidus that fights, like the eruv wars and similar  fights that come up all the time

The yukels talk and hock..... In small cities everyone has to listen. There's a difference between getting involved - in the coffee room, and getting involved - in the boardroom.

[DH Data Recovery]

 
In your scenario smaller cities have 30 Jewish ppl???

[jj1000]

The yukels talk and hock..... In small cities everyone has to listen. There's a difference between getting involved - in the coffee room, and getting involved - in the boardroom.

People will always have different opinions on how things will work better. Achdus doesn't have to mean everyone agrees all the time. In marriage do you agree all the time? Achdus means if you don't agree you work it out and move forward.

[RJ898]

One of the main reasons NYC needs so many Chessed org's is because the cost of living is so high, most people can't get by without help! Find a nice community in middle America and you can get.... what's it called again.... oh right, a JOB!! and you won't need all that Chessed. and what's that other thing you can't find in NYC.... oh right, a.... wait for it.... AN AFFORDABLE HOUSE that's not the size of the small bedroom in your parents house!!

[Shlomo Zalman]

One of the main reasons NYC needs so many Chessed org's is because the cost of living is so high, most people can't get by without help! Find a nice community in middle America and you can get.... what's it called again.... oh right, a JOB!! and you won't need all that Chessed. and what's that other thing you can't find in NYC.... oh right, a.... wait for it.... AN AFFORDABLE HOUSE that's not the size of the small bedroom in your parents house!!

"oh right, a JOB!!" is indeed an apt description. Good luck finding one OOT. (That's a sincere bracha.) You have far far more available jobs in NYC -- both heimish and general/corporate -- and of a much higher variety of jobs in NYC. And much higher paying jobs in NYC, I must add, than OOT.

Which, of course, is why so many people from far and wide travel to NYC every day to their jobs; something they couldn't find locally. And certainly not with as much compensation. And so much more, both frum and non-Jewish, actually permanently move to NYC for the available jobs.

Should I also discuss the problematic shidduch situation OOT? And why half or more of OOTers run to NY for shidduchim?... We'll leave that for another comment.

[RJ898]

"oh right, a JOB!!" is indeed an apt description. Good luck finding one OOT. (That's a sincere bracha.) You have far far more available jobs in NYC -- both heimish and general/corporate -- and of a much higher variety of jobs in NYC. And much higher paying jobs in NYC, I must add, than OOT.

Which, of course, is why so many people from far and wide travel to NYC every day to their jobs; something they couldn't find locally. And certainly not with as much compensation. And so much more, both frum and non-Jewish, actually permanently move to NYC for the available jobs.

Seriously, where do you get your facts from??

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

Does NY seem to be doing well to you?

[Shlomo Zalman]

The unemployment rate is one measuring rod that is far from the complete picture. There is no dispute that many people, including frum, move to NY for jobs. There is also no doubt that NYC has far more jobs and a far higher of variety of job, especially high-paying, than other towns.

Sure, you can get a job flipping burgers at minimum wage in Yehupitsville.

[RJ898]

According to some recent numbers, a family with 6 kids living in NJ need to be making 225k a year just to be able to pay the bills, do you really think it's the same in Texas or Ohio where a down payment is the equivalent of what it costs to feed your family for a week in Brooklyn?

[jj1000]

The unemployment rate is one measuring rod that is far from the complete picture. There is no dispute that many people, including frum, move to NY for jobs. There is also no doubt that NYC has far more jobs and a far higher of variety of job, especially high-paying, than other towns.

Sure, you can get a job flipping burgers at minimum wage in Yehupitsville.

All you NY'ers steal from the government and scam anything you can. It's just disgusting. There are 100X more criminals and crime in NYC than many OOTC.

Mods can we move this to JS please? It's out of hand stupid.

[Saver2000]

"oh right, a JOB!!" is indeed an apt description. Good luck finding one OOT. (That's a sincere bracha.) You have far far more available jobs in NYC -- both heimish and general/corporate -- and of a much higher variety of jobs in NYC. And much higher paying jobs in NYC, I must add, than OOT.

Which, of course, is why so many people from far and wide travel to NYC every day to their jobs; something they couldn't find locally. And certainly not with as much compensation. And so much more, both frum and non-Jewish, actually permanently move to NYC for the available jobs.

Seriously?

Sure, people from the tri-state area travel to NYC for their jobs.
OOT'ers have jobs in their home town.

As a matter of fact, many many people move OOT because of a job position.

[Ergel]

Mods can we move this to JS please? It's out of hand stupid.

Don't say I didn't warn you

[DH Data Recovery]

I would say in general it's may be easier to find a job in NY than other states because there's more opportunity here, however Cost of living here is much higher as well. 

[moko]

I've lived in NY for decades. And not once have I or any family member I know of -- or any neighbor or friend I know of -- gotten into any serious fight. I'm sure it happens, but it is uncommon.

I've lived in several different homes around here, all in different neighborhoods. I've been very friendly and gotten along with *all* my neighbors at all times. Adults and children. They play with each other, we converse with each other and we share simchos and the opposite r'l with each other. Always have.

The crime rate in the Jewish neighborhoods of NY (especially Midwood and Boro Park) is almost *non-existant*. They are the safest neighborhoods in NYC. This is a statistical fact you can view with NYPD data.

Your impressions of NY are way way off base, based on popular media fiction and rumor mongering.

besides for the swastika on the door across the street from me, besides for the chaim berlin yungerman who got mugged in broad daylight, oh ad the other one and another one, oh and one more (l&m area)  - 4 yungerlight mugged within a short timespan and all the mirrors that get knocked off cars by local punks parkville area and anothe guy I know in the teens and ave n who had a rock thrown through his window this year
why i am i responding can anyone help me out with this one?

I've lived in several different homes around here, all in different neighborhoods. I've been very friendly and gotten along with *all* my neighbors at all times. Adults and children. They play with each other, we converse with each other and we share simchos and the opposite r'l with each other. Always have.

well lets just say i'v been living on a block with over 50 frum families for about 4 years and about five have invited me to their simchos (including the Rav). and r"l when we had a tzara i was all but ignored.

Your impressions of NY are way way off base, based on popular media fiction and rumor mongering.

my impressions of bklyn come from living here for 4 years

[Dan]

can anyone help me out with this one?

I really have no interest in joining but I will say anecdotally that the vast majority of the people living in Beachwood are thrilled by the community and never want to move while the majority of NY'ers I've talked to would love to move to a small safe town but can't just yet because of x, y, or z.

To say that OOT communities are dying is laughable. NYC will always have the largest frum community and there's nothing wrong with that at all.  But the future is more and more OOT communities as people begin to realize the pleasures of living in places where housing is cheap, the streets are clean, the cops are nice, people are friendly, politics don't rule the day, kids don't have so many things to lead them astray and aren't rebelling, nobody cares who's driving what car, you don't spend hours in traffic and commuting, you can drive to the local store where there is ample free parking everywhere, etc, etc.

The proof is in the pudding, when we moved to Beachwood 5 years ago there were very few young couples here.  Now it has absolutely exploded and continues to every week with new young people flooding in.

True, there's no hatazala here.  That's because police/fire/ambulance response is always under 2 minutes.   There are tons of g'machs though and even chaveirim that will help you if you run out of gas or lock your keys in the car.

Best of all? These couples that moved into apartments just a couple years ago are already buying up houses.  No more money thrown away on expensive rent and it creates a permanence to the community. I know people who have lived in NYC for decades always paying rent to a landlord.  Just think of the $$$$$$$ wasted like that.

[zale]

I really have no interest in joining but I will say anecdotally that the vast majority of the people living in Beachwood are thrilled by the community and never want to move while the majority of NY'ers I've talked to would love to move to a small safe town but can't just yet because of x, y, or z.

To say that OOT communities are dying is laughable. NYC will always have the largest frum community and there's nothing wrong with that at all.  But the future is more and more OOT communities as people begin to realize the pleasures of living in places where housing is cheap, the streets are clean, the cops are nice, people are friendly, politics don't rule the day, kids don't have so many things to lead them astray and aren't rebelling, nobody cares who's driving what car, you don't spend hours in traffic and commuting, you can drive to the local store where there is ample free parking everywhere, etc, etc.

The proof is in the pudding, when we moved to Beachwood 5 years ago there were very few young couples here.  Now it has absolutely exploded and continues to every week with new young people flooding in.

True, there's no hatazala here.  That's because police/fire/ambulance response is always under 2 minutes.   There are tons of g'machs though and even chaveirim that will help you if you run out of gas or lock your keys in the car.

Best of all? These couples that moved into apartments just a couple years ago are already buying up houses.  No more money thrown away on expensive rent and it creates a permanence to the community. I know people who have lived in NYC for decades always paying rent to a landlord.  Just think of the $$$$$$$ wasted like that.

There are pros and cons to Large and medium cities and suburb towns.

From an economical point of view:

Typically, in large cities, there is more employment and opportunity available, because they don't rely on any one specific type of industry to float their economy, but rather it's made up of thousands of various industries and businesses. but it comes at a price. Rent and housing is high. However, living in a large city is in some ways financial security.

Medium and suburb towns in many cases rely on something specific to float their economy. For example, when Agriprocessors was raided, the entire economy of Postville sunk. In that and all similar scenarios, once the primary economic driver goes down, it takes everyone down with it. (Coal etc..)

Sometimes, even larger cities rely on a specific industry, such as Detroit. NYC, on the other hand, does not rely on any specific industry.

For a Frum Jew in particular, NYC does offer a lot of options, whereas other communities do not. If a Frum Jew takes up a job opportunity in a place outside of NYC, and that business closes down or fires him or her, they will likely have an exceptionally hard time staying in that city.

[Dan]

Obviously the larger the city the greater the job opportunities.

But to say that if you lose your job in a top-25 CSA that you won't find another is pure folly.  Sure in Postville, IA that's true. But there are all regions with millions of people and jobs!

1    New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA    22,085,649
2    Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA    17,877,006
3    Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI    9,686,021
4    Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV    8,572,971    
5    Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH    7,559,060
6    San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA    7,468,390
7    Dallas-Fort Worth, TX    6,731,317
8    Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD    6,533,683
9    Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX    6,051,363
10    Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL    5,618,431
11    Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI    5,218,852
12    Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA    4,199,312
13    Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI    3,615,902
14    Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO /1    3,090,874
15    Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH    2,881,937
16    St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL    2,878,255    
17    Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL    2,818,120    
18    Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA    2,447,393
19    Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Yuba City, CA-NV    2,461,780    
20    Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC    2,402,623
21    Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN    2,172,191    
22    Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS    2,104,853
23    Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN    2,080,782    
24    Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH    2,071,052    
25    Las Vegas-Paradise-Pahrump, NV    1,995,215

[moko]

I'd like to make a simple point. I don't think anyone (yes even me) would argue that their are pros to city life, and cons to out of town life, but the op was full of useless untrue prattle, (stating statistics and facts that were clearly made up on the fly) which were summarily debunked in further posts.