Author Topic: NYC Vs. OOT  (Read 10815 times)

Offline DH Data Recovery

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4536
  • Total likes: 3
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 64
    • View Profile
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2013, 03:12:47 PM »
I'm ok with pros and cons of city life vs OOT life, but don't gimme any of that frum, chesed, rabbanim ,holier than thou attitude just because you grew up with a very narrow minded point of view...

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 59327
  • Total likes: 6638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2013, 03:14:11 PM »
I'm ok with pros and cons of city life vs OOT life, but don't gimme any of that frum, chesed, rabbanim ,holier than thou attitude just because you grew up with a very narrow minded point of view...
+1,000.

Obviously there are numerous pros and cons to each and everyone will assign a weight to them and decide for themselves what kind of lifestyle they enjoy having.

Do you value unlimited restaurants or not hearing sirens at night?
Do you value 24/7 kosher grocery stores or not having to deal with parking tickets, traffic, and break-ins?

The list of legit pros and cons is endless and resorting to holier than thou is just offputting.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline zale

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1379
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2013, 03:16:20 PM »
Obviously the larger the city the greater the job opportunities.

But to say that if you lose your job in a top-25 CSA that you won't find another is pure folly.  Sure in Postville, IA that's true. But there are all regions with millions of people and jobs!

1    New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA    22,085,649
2    Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA    17,877,006
3    Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI    9,686,021
4    Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV    8,572,971    
5    Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH    7,559,060
6    San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA    7,468,390
7    Dallas-Fort Worth, TX    6,731,317
8    Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD    6,533,683
9    Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX    6,051,363
10    Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL    5,618,431
11    Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI    5,218,852
12    Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA    4,199,312
13    Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI    3,615,902
14    Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO /1    3,090,874
15    Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH    2,881,937
16    St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL    2,878,255    
17    Orlando-Deltona-Daytona Beach, FL    2,818,120    
18    Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA    2,447,393
19    Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Yuba City, CA-NV    2,461,780    
20    Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC    2,402,623
21    Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN    2,172,191    
22    Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS    2,104,853
23    Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN    2,080,782    
24    Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH    2,071,052    
25    Las Vegas-Paradise-Pahrump, NV    1,995,215

I agree. I wasn't saying that in other places you won't find a job, rather, I was making a sample comparison between a large city and a small city, and I used NYC in the comparison. However, you are correct that other large cities have many opportunities as well.


Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 59327
  • Total likes: 6638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2013, 03:19:30 PM »
I agree. I wasn't saying that in other places you won't find a job, rather, I was making a sample comparison between a large city and a small city, and I used NYC in the comparison. However, you are correct that other large cities have many opportunities as well.
Even though I could do my job from anywhere I'd never live out in the real boondocks.  It's nice living in a quiet place but also being a 25 minute drive away from a vibrant downtown core with several pro sports teams and entertainment attractions.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Shlomo Zalman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 108
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2013, 04:44:46 PM »
If you guys like paying through your bloody noses for Yeshiva tuition, feel free to live OOT. In The City That Never Sleeps tuition is substantially cheaper.

Kosher food is significantly cheaper in the Big Apple.

Shidduchim everyone comes to NY. Others move here from OOT for the shidduch opportunities and to save constant travel expenses to visit The Capital of The World.

Offline DH Data Recovery

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4536
  • Total likes: 3
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 64
    • View Profile
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2013, 04:49:27 PM »
If you guys like paying through your bloody noses for Yeshiva tuition, feel free to live OOT. In The City That Never Sleeps tuition is substantially cheaper.

Kosher food is significantly cheaper in the Big Apple.

Shidduchim everyone comes to NY. Others move here from OOT for the shidduch opportunities and to save constant travel expenses to visit The Capital of The World.

Yeshiva - really depends on the school. You obviously mean BP, Williamsburg when you say NYC - because Manhattan schools, 5 Towns, and many Flatbush schools are more expensive.

Kosher Food - maybe cheaper in NY but after rent etc you pretty much lose whatever you gain in NY. Oh, and also Costco and Walmart and many other stores have kosher food for same price in NY and elsewhere

Shidduchim - Are you saying everyone is bashert to marry someone from NY?

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 59327
  • Total likes: 6638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2013, 04:51:34 PM »
If you guys like paying through your bloody noses for Yeshiva tuition, feel free to live OOT. In The City That Never Sleeps tuition is substantially cheaper.
This is a joke, right?
Maybe in some chaseedisher communities but besides for that you couldn't be more wrong.
OOT tuition in places like CLE and PIT is cheap and they are more than willing to cut huge breaks.

Kosher food is significantly cheaper in the Big Apple.
I used to think that was true.  Having done a comparison of many products though it simply isn't.
Actually many grocery and meat items were cheaper in CLE than NYC.
Even if overall it's slightly cheaper I'd still take ample free parking with a minor price premium.

That's all kosher items, regular grocery items are wayyyy cheaper in CLE than NYC.  Unless you've located a Walmart /SuperWalmart in Brooklyn?
And that's not even counting the ridiculously high cost of living in NYC, etc

Shidduchim everyone comes to NY. Others move here from OOT for the shidduch opportunities and to save constant travel expenses to visit The Capital of The World.
I dated 2 girls from NYC. And 2 from LA for that matter.  I refused to date another from those places after that.

Sure that's a ridiculously small sample size but OOT girls I dated were more aidel, less nosy/gossipy, less stuck-up about their city being the only place worth living, and more willing to move anywhere where the husband needed to be.
I was happy to fly across the continent to date them.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 04:55:21 PM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Shlomo Zalman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 108
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2013, 04:55:16 PM »
Most of the OOTers have to do significant travel for shidduchim. A large portion of that travel is to NY. They also have to travel to all sorts of other places. In NY that is generally not the case.

From a financial perspective, despite any savings on home/rent/tickets/etc., the higher paying wages in NY on average more than offsets by far the increased cost of living.

And again, NYC has cheaper kosher food, lower property taxes, lower yeshiva tuition, lower commuting costs (mass transit), etc. So for a frum family there are actually a number of financial advantages with living in NYC.

Offline Shlomo Zalman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 108
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2013, 04:56:59 PM »
Dan:

Tuition in Brooklyn is easily gotten at $4,000 for the first child and less than that for additional children. That's non-Chasidish. Chasidish is significantly less. You'd be very hard pressed to find those rates OOT.

Shidduchim costs OOTers, in general, significantly more money and travel time than NYers.


Offline Shlomo Zalman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 108
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2013, 04:59:56 PM »
And, frankly, eidelkeit is found in far greater measure in NY than anywhere else in Chut Laaretz. It is OOTers suffering from an inferiority complex that are frequently all hateful about NYers and cannot stop themselves from constantly putting down Yidden from NY.

Offline DH Data Recovery

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4536
  • Total likes: 3
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 64
    • View Profile
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2013, 05:01:26 PM »
And, frankly, eidelkeit is found in far greater measure in NY than anywhere else in Chut Laaretz. It is OOTers that are frequently all hateful about NYers and cannot stop themselves from constantly putting down Yidden from NY due to their inferiority complex.
Of course! NY is known all around the world for its eidelkeit....???

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 11457
  • Total likes: 1910
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2013, 05:01:37 PM »
@Dan don't waste your time. Everyone here knows he is wrong. You don't have to defend something a little googling could prove.

@Ergel you win. He is either a troll, or worse...
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 59327
  • Total likes: 6638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2013, 05:02:59 PM »
From a financial perspective, despite any savings on home/rent/tickets/etc., the higher paying wages in NY on average more than offsets by far the increased cost of living.
You really have no clue about the world out there. 

The slightly higher wages are offset alone just by massive NY city+state income tax. 
The cost of living in NYC is easily double or triple CLE.

You can rent a apt here starting from $600 or a house starting from $1,000.
You can buy a house starting at $100K or get a luxurious house from $300K.
My car insurance is $30/month because drivers are safe and people don't break into your car.
Etc, etc

NYC has cheaper kosher food
Not significant at all and more than offset by higher general grocery prices.

lower property taxes
Source?

lower commuting costs (mass transit), etc
People commute because it's such a PITA to drive and sit in hours of traffic and owning a car is a PITA due to alternate side and ticket quotas.
Otherwise anyone would take an easy 10 minute morning commute to go to their well-paying and plentiful accounting job on Chagrin or to the Clinic which is one of the world's best hospitals and employers.


Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Shlomo Zalman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 108
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2013, 05:03:47 PM »
The higher wages in NY are much more than slight.

And don't discount significantly higher OOT property taxes that NYC does not have.

NYC has mass transit. That is significantly cheaper than driving. And you cannot usually find high-paying jobs within 10 minutes from the average frum OOT neighborhoods.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 59327
  • Total likes: 6638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA Global Services, AA Lifetime Plat, DL Dirt, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat, Avis Chairman, National EE, Hertz PC
Re: NYC Vs. OOT
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2013, 05:05:30 PM »
And, frankly, eidelkeit is found in far greater measure in NY than anywhere else in Chut Laaretz. It is OOTers suffering from an inferiority complex that are frequently all hateful about NYers and cannot stop themselves from constantly putting down Yidden from NY.
Now I know you're nuts and will bow out of this thread.
All of your numbers and statistics are pulled out of you know where.

OT tuition for Beis Medresh is what now? $22,000?

When I lived in NYC I used to greet everyone with a good shabbos.  People looked at me like I fell off the moon. Store-owners won't give you the time of day.

It's the exact opposite in a nice OOT place.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.