Author Topic: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?  (Read 8970 times)

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 20574
  • Total likes: 133
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 74
    • View Profile
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2013, 03:39:49 PM »
Which is exactly why the whole thing should be thrown out and streamlined.

But then they can't bury hide all the loopholes (pork, special interests, call it what you want) written into the current code.
PGF24BMGS

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7189
  • Total likes: 275
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2013, 05:13:00 PM »
I reviewed the OC and the Tosfas you referenced. I stand by my statement.
Sanhedrin 99a:
Quote
והאומר אין תורה מן השמים וכו': תנו רבנן כי דבר ה' בזה ומצותו הפר הכרת תכרת זה האומר אין תורה מן השמים ד"א כי דבר ה' בזה זה אפיקורוס ד"א כי דבר ה' בזה זה המגלה פנים בתורה ואת מצותו הפר זה המפר ברית בשר הכרת תכרת הכרת בעולם הזה תכרת לעולם הבא מכאן אמר רבי אליעזר המודעי המחלל את הקדשים והמבזה את המועדות והמפר בריתו של אברהם אבינו והמגלה פנים בתורה שלא כהלכה והמלבין פני חבירו ברבים אף על פי שיש בידו תורה ומעשים טובים אין לו חלק לעולם הבא תניא אידך כי דבר ה' בזה זה האומר אין תורה מן השמים ואפילו אמר כל התורה כולה מן השמים חוץ מפסוק זה שלא אמרו הקדוש ברוך הוא אלא משה מפי עצמו זהו כי דבר ה' בזה ואפילו אמר כל התורה כולה מן השמים חוץ מדקדוק זה מקל וחומר זה מגזרה שוה זו זה הוא כי דבר ה' בזה

You should know that many times there is a "kasha" on a principle of faith. Sometimes you may even find a "Mekor" to concept that goes against one of the thirteen principles.
The difference between a "Maamin bemuna shleima upeshuta" and the heretic, is that one understand that as with all other areas of torah, there are always multiple terutzim and explanations. The kashas cannot ever sway his belief set, he knows that they are true just as the day is clear. The heretic usually never accepted the thirteen principles as absolute truths in the first place (Generally newcomers to yiddishkeit).

The tone of your "statement" sounded like your in the latter camp. Good luck in accepting the truth.  :)





Offline Menachem613

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1009
  • Total likes: 44
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2013, 09:52:26 PM »
Sanhedrin 99a:
You should know that many times there is a "kasha" on a principle of faith. Sometimes you may even find a "Mekor" to concept that goes against one of the thirteen principles.
The difference between a "Maamin bemuna shleima upeshuta" and the heretic, is that one understand that as with all other areas of torah, there are always multiple terutzim and explanations. The kashas cannot ever sway his belief set, he knows that they are true just as the day is clear. The heretic usually never accepted the thirteen principles as absolute truths in the first place (Generally newcomers to yiddishkeit).

The tone of your "statement" sounded like your in the latter camp. Good luck in accepting the truth.  :)

As an aside, not all Rishonim agreed with the Rambam's 13 principles, and that doesn't make them any less frum for disagreeing with him.  Also, doesn't Rashi say that the last 8 Pesukim were written by Yehoshua? Furthermore, I hope you don't say Borchuni Lesholom as part of Shaloim Aleichim, as that runs counter to one of the the Rambam's 13 principles of only davening to Hashem and not to angels.

Offline Club2000

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 312
  • Total likes: 1
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: CH
  • Programs: Delta P, AA Gold 4 Life, Starwood Gold
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2013, 09:55:35 PM »
Is it ok to BBQ fish on a meat grill or do you need extra racks? Just askin

Need to wait 24h after clean same for frying pan
Lechumra alte rebbe

Offline Menachem613

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1009
  • Total likes: 44
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2013, 10:02:42 PM »
Need to wait 24h after clean same for frying pan
Lechumra alte rebbe

I assume (but don't know for certain) that Sefardim hold the same with respect to mixing fish and milchig as per the Shulchan Aruch.

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7189
  • Total likes: 275
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2013, 11:01:14 PM »
As an aside, not all Rishonim agreed with the Rambam's 13 principles, and that doesn't make them any less frum for disagreeing with him.  Also, doesn't Rashi say that the last 8 Pesukim were written by Yehoshua? Furthermore, I hope you don't say Borchuni Lesholom as part of Shaloim Aleichim, as that runs counter to one of the the Rambam's 13 principles of only davening to Hashem and not to angels.
Everyone agrees that "kol hatorah hamutzuya beyadeinu was given to Moshe on sini"
Exactly how to reconcile this absolutely true statement with the many kashas is up for major debate. Chazal already grapple with this issues, as you pointed out- the discussion re the last few pesukim discussing Moshes death etc.
All the kashas and shitos in the world cannot change the fact that kol hatorah shebicsav and shebal peh was transmitted from G-D to Moshe. In normative traditional Judaism this was never up for debate, ever.   

Offline Armadillo

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 714
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2013, 05:51:56 PM »
Upthread they said that simply turning up the heat for a while is sufficient to kasher..
that was about meat - fish, iirc

Offline Armadillo

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 714
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2013, 05:53:14 PM »
Point 7 only said it is extremely difficult and advised not to bother kashering like in 8. when if it is your grill you may as well buy an extra grate. Just seems like good advice.
+1 (the answer to 8 is the reason for the answer to 7)

Offline Armadillo

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 714
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2013, 06:03:15 PM »
Need to wait 24h after clean same for frying pan
Lechumra alte rebbe
Many people hold this way (lechatchila), in particular chassidim. They won't use a ben yomo meat pot for fish and vice versa. Some even have a separate fish pot.
The OU statement above was probably in line with this shita, lechatchila.
Practically speaking, cleaning off any mamoshus (actual particles) and bringing it to the highest (used) heat for a few minutes would be enough.
(Leaving the MG"A aside, there is a whole other discussion to be had, which is "do we say sakana on bleeos?" The answer to that has a lot to do with the varying psakim in the OP shayla)

Offline Menachem613

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1009
  • Total likes: 44
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2013, 08:35:28 PM »
...yet the same people won't hesitate to smoke.

Offline Armadillo

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 714
  • Total likes: 0
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Can you BBQ fish on a meat grill?
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2013, 09:10:55 PM »
...yet the same people won't hesitate to smoke.
apparently, someone saw that chip on your shoulder and cemented it