Author Topic: Boycott Kaporas?  (Read 26859 times)

Offline DovtheBear

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Boycott Kaporas?
« on: September 04, 2013, 02:00:49 PM »
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"להסתובב זה לא אומר להיות חופשי"

Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 02:08:04 PM »
Lots of blanket accusations...
But I've never seen any of Rabbi Jacob's chickens in Cleveland suffocating and he's always checking his knife as any reputable shochet would do.  And the chickens all go to the local jewish food bank which distributes them to the poor.

Maybe next he'll rise up against how they're treated in the slaughterhouses and beg us to go Vegan?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline good sam

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 02:08:35 PM »
As the Aruch Hashulchan commented on this matter, we Jews hold on to our minhagim tighter that to Mitzvos D'Oraisa, regardless of their validity.

(Paraphrased. Don't recall exact wording.)
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline DovtheBear

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 02:10:59 PM »
Lots of blanket accusations...
But I've never seen any of Rabbi Jacob's chickens in Cleveland suffocating and he's always checking his knife as any reputable shochet would do.  And the chickens all go to the local jewish food bank which distributes them to the poor.

Maybe next he'll rise up against how they're treated in the slaughterhouses and beg us to go Vegan?
If what he says doesn't apply-מה טוב ומה נעים!
But, have you ever been to Boro Park Kaparos?
"להסתובב זה לא אומר להיות חופשי"

Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 02:11:59 PM »
Have you ever been to Boro Park Kaparos?
BH, no.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline good sam

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 02:12:23 PM »
Lots of blanket accusations...
But I've never seen any of Rabbi Jacob's chickens in Cleveland suffocating and he's always checking his knife as any reputable shochet would do.  And the chickens all go to the local jewish food bank which distributes them to the poor.
The argument that it's impossible for it to be done properly doesn't hold water.  Kaporos is not as mass an operation as, say, the Empire factory on daily basis.  How many times per day do you thing the Empire shochet is checking his knife?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline DovtheBear

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 02:16:11 PM »
BH, no.
Lucky you!  :)
Personally, our family uses money, but for the couple of days before Yom Kippur, you can't walk by those places!
The argument that it's impossible for it to be done properly doesn't hold water.  Kaporos is not as mass an operation as, say, the Empire factory on daily basis.  How many times per day do you thing the Empire shochet is checking his knife?
His point is (CMIIW) that this is a Minhag that symbolizes Kapparah. Do you want to have all those problems on your head under the premise of "Kapparah"?
Empire is a business. They don't claim to be doing a righteous thing.

#My2Cents

Edit: He's not the first to come out against it. I've heard in the name of (I forget which) big Gedolim that the situation, in general, is getting out of hand.
I believe the MB says that if it will come to Tzar Balei Chayim one should avoid the chickens and use money.
"להסתובב זה לא אומר להיות חופשי"

Offline good sam

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 03:30:48 PM »
OT: Since when is tomato a fruit?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 03:40:49 PM »
Why not just use money? I assume there are many against this?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline zale

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 03:49:31 PM »
I think it's about time that someone has publicly come out with this.

Yes, this type of abuse (and worse) does occur in factories all the time, but at least in factories they are not claiming to do this as a way to absolve themselves from sin. Also, in factories what goes on is behind closed doors, so there is no apparent Chillul Hashem being made. (Despite the fact that McDonald's factories commit far worse abuse.)

Every year by Kapparos I am handed a 3/4 dead chicken by some 12 year old kid who pulls it aggressively out of a crate by its wings. One year I had my chicken die on me by the time I brought it to the Shochet. Of course, I had to do it all over again. (At least they had the decency to give me a new one. They threw the dead one under the truck like a soccer ball.).

The only way to do this "humanely" would be to get taller crates so that the chickens don't have to have their heads squashed, put less chickens in a crate, feed the chickens and give them water every few hours, and keep them in a shaded area.

Of course, doing that would raise the prices by $5 per chicken...


Offline zale

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 03:52:56 PM »
Why not just use money? I assume there are many against this?

Many Mitzvos have various ways of being fulfilled. In many cases there is a preferred way, less preferred, even less preferred etc.

Chickens are considered the preferred way, fish if you don't have chickens, and money if you don't have fish.

Are you aware that on Chanukah, you need only light one single candle to fulfill the Mitzvah?


Offline CountValentine

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 04:02:40 PM »
Are you aware that on Chanukah, you need only light one single candle to fulfill the Mitzvah?
No.
Is Kaporas a Mitzvah (hope I am asking that right)?
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Offline sky121

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 04:05:15 PM »
Why not just use money? I assume there are many against this?

Many many people do use money.
Including myself. Though I have used chickens in the past.
"Not all who wander are lost"

Offline zale

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 04:26:44 PM »
No.
Is Kaporas a Mitzvah (hope I am asking that right)?

"Mitzvah" has a very broad definition. It means "commandment", but it can go as far as "the fact that you are not sinning right now, you are doing a Mitzvah."

Kapparos is a custom (Albeit brought down in the Code of Jewish Law). Doing that custom in honor of Yom Kippur is a Mitzvah. Taking action to clean yourself from sin is a Mitzvah.


Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 05:23:23 PM »
I think it's about time that someone has publicly come out with this.
I think such a campaign has a higher chance of success.
Many people would be willing to pay an extra $5 or even $10 if they saw that it was significantly better conditions and there was a push to make it that way.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.