Author Topic: Boycott Kaporas?  (Read 37225 times)

Offline Drago

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2013, 04:58:07 PM »
So this is a custom?

Lucky you!  :)
His point is (CMIIW) that this is a Minhag that symbolizes Kapparah.

"Mitzvah" has a very broad definition. It means "commandment", but it can go as far as "the fact that you are not sinning right now, you are doing a Mitzvah."

Kapparos is a custom (Albeit brought down in the Code of Jewish Law). Doing that custom in honor of Yom Kippur is a Mitzvah. Taking action to clean yourself from sin is a Mitzvah.
"Minhag" = custom

Offline moish

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2013, 07:21:04 PM »
in lakewood there are a few places where the chickens are kept very well. roaming around in a pen as opposed to in a crate, food, water etc

Offline good sam

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2013, 10:54:38 PM »
Ever since it had seeds.  ;)
Interesting.  So scientifically it is a fruit, but according the U.S. Supreme Court and the State of New Jersey, it is a vegetable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomatoe#Fruit_or_vegetable.3F
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2013, 11:21:22 PM »
Interesting.  So scientifically it is a fruit, but according the U.S. Supreme Court and the State of New Jersey, it is a vegetable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomatoe#Fruit_or_vegetable.3F
"The holding of this case applies only to the interpretation of the Tariff Act of 3 March 1883, and the court did not purport to reclassify the tomato for botanical or other purposes."
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline MarkS

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2013, 11:30:15 PM »
The argument that it's impossible for it to be done properly doesn't hold water.  Kaporos is not as mass an operation as, say, the Empire factory on daily basis.  How many times per day do you thing the Empire shochet is checking his knife?
FYI, the system at Empire is as follows:
They have a row of several Shochtim shechting with all of their chickens merging onto the same conveyor belt. Every 5 minutes a bell rings (or something like that) and they all stop shechting and check their knives. If any of them have a problem with their knife, the past 5 minutes shechita from that row is declared non-kosher and removed the processing line.
Effectively the same as each shochet checking their knife after each chicken.

Offline DovtheBear

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2013, 11:43:14 PM »
Thanks for the thread.  :)
Although the title is very misleading.
No one is proposing to "Boycott Kapparos". Aderaba, we want to do it as k'halacha as possible.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 12:55:09 AM by DovtheBear »
"להסתובב זה לא אומר להיות חופשי"

Offline good sam

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2013, 11:43:58 PM »
FYI, the system at Empire is as follows:
They have a row of several Shochtim shechting with all of their chickens merging onto the same conveyor belt. Every 5 minutes a bell rings (or something like that) and they all stop shechting and check their knives. If any of them have a problem with their knife, the past 5 minutes shechita from that row is declared non-kosher and removed the processing line.
Effectively the same as each shochet checking their knife after each chicken.
5 minutes? I find that hard to believe. I'm under the impression that they check only a handful of times per day.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline MarkS

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2013, 11:53:12 PM »
5 minutes? I find that hard to believe. I'm under the impression that they check only a handful of times per day.
I got that info from someone who worked at Empire as a Bodek Sakinim....

Offline dirah

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2013, 05:50:34 AM »
I'm under the impression that they check only a handful of times per day.
:o
There is no way that would be acceptable Al Pi Halacha.

Offline Twin

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2013, 07:01:04 AM »
5 minutes? I find that hard to believe. I'm under the impression that they check only a handful of times per day.
As a kid I've seen the video it is every 5 mi minutes.

Offline MarkS

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2013, 05:35:56 PM »

Offline DovtheBear

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2013, 05:40:17 PM »

Was there even one accurate fact in there? ("Done in very few communities"?!)
And thank god it's Jews against Jews.  :-[
"להסתובב זה לא אומר להיות חופשי"

Offline Drago

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2013, 05:54:04 AM »
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1454098

How sad
And what a chillul hashem

Offline joeb1

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2013, 08:02:23 AM »
Self hating Jews....those are the best

Offline Drago

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2013, 09:03:26 AM »
Self hating Jews....those are the best
Which ones?
And be careful about the answer, there are enough sources that viewed kapparos is a negative light either due to
A) superstition
B) ways of goyim (probably linked to a above)
C) tzaar baalei chaim


Offline henche

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2013, 09:10:26 AM »
I did it in Boro Park this year, at like 11PM when the chickens had already been sitting all day.

My chicken seemed just fine, not dead at all. It squawked at me and fought go get loose like a right spring chicken.

I saw two dead chickens in a box, which does not seem too bad considering they must have done a couple thousand that day.

The tayna on the crates is ridiculous--they are supposed to be shipped in those crates. You think the kaparros people invented the crates? It's just the same crates every shipper ships chickens in.

And when I watch that video, especially with the yarlmulked sheigetz being the mekatreig, it reminds me very well of Lukumi Babalu Aye (which was similarly the high class Cuban immigrants trying to shut down the superstitions of the low class immigrants who practiced Santeria)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 09:15:59 AM by henche »

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2013, 09:26:53 AM »

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2013, 09:27:21 AM »
Kaparos has so many mekoros in the acharonim, kadmonim, rishonim and geonim that even though there were several dissenters (ch"a for one, but for a different reason because of the shochtim), that anyone that is melagleg on the minheg can be called an APIKORES!

That doesn't say that the chickens shouldn't be treated more humanely.

These self-hating Jews would have protested against the Bais HaMikdash daily.

Offline Menachem613

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2013, 09:59:24 AM »

Kaparos has so many mekoros in the acharonim, kadmonim, rishonim and geonim that even though there were several dissenters (ch"a for one, but for a different reason because of the shochtim), that anyone that is melagleg on the minheg can be called an APIKORES!

That doesn't say that the chickens shouldn't be treated more humanely.

These self-hating Jews would have protested against the Bais HaMikdash daily.

I hope you didn't mean to call the Ramban, the SA, and the Rashba an Apikores, chas vashulum.

Offline Drago

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2013, 10:01:50 AM »
that anyone that is melagleg on the minheg can be called an APIKORES
Thats some mighty strong language you are using...
I assume your rav paskens that way?