Author Topic: Boycott Kaporas?  (Read 38289 times)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2015, 10:01:55 PM »
Kaparos will be eliminated by chabadskers when we start getting rid of metzitzah b'peh and our beards. Or maybe once we start drinking C"S.
Just ain't gonna happen.

Don't see why it needs to be fly by night. It's not by me.

I'm not saying to eliminate it completely, as it can still be done humanely.
But unfortunately many or most places are not humane and people in those places should start using the alternative.

You live in a smallish town that has it a lot better organized. Never gonna happen in Brooklyn, Monsey or Lakewood where anyone can just set up shop anywhere and they'll make thousands.

Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2015, 10:02:51 PM »
A smallish town of 100,000 Jews. Gotta love it :)
It's doable. All things being equal, people will choose a humane option over the non-humane option, even if it's at a slight price premium.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2015, 10:03:23 PM »
A smallish town of 100,000 Jews. Gotta love it :)

Is it really?
Consider me close minded.

Eta: Don't you have like 1 pizza store in the whole town- which should be the best measure to understand the size of Jewish population?

Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2015, 10:07:07 PM »
For starters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_urban_areas#Jewish_population_by_city_in_percentage_.28outside_Israel.29

Down to 86,600, not 100k.
But really funny your using a number that doesn't give any idea of the religious population, which is probably peanuts.

Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #85 on: September 20, 2015, 10:09:44 PM »
Was using the "people in jewish households" number.
The study shows 33% as Orthodox.

Plus growth in the 5 years since that study has been very large, especially Orthodox growth (huge shuls out of space and are building 3x the size, etc)
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2015, 10:11:06 PM »
It's doable. All things being equal, people will choose a humane option over the non-humane option, even if it's at a slight price premium.

People are complacent and humane options aren't on the table for most people.
Especially not when the knee jerk reaction to valid humane/halachik concerns is to call the protestors anti-religious/anti-semites.

Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2015, 10:14:13 PM »
Instead of protesting, go setup a humane kaporas at a 10% premium and see what happens?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2015, 10:21:01 PM »
Instead of protesting, go setup a humane kaporas at a 10% premium and see what happens?
How can swinging a chicken over your head then cutting its throat ever be humane (if I am understanding correctly)? They can be treated more humane than slaughterhouse chickens but that is not saying much. This coming from someone that just ate about 8 wings for a night time snack.  :-[ 
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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2015, 10:22:36 PM »
I just sure hope non of.the protesters eat non-kosher chicken.
http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2007/05/the-difficult-lives-and-deaths-of-factory-farmed-chickens/
I have heard and learned about broiler chickens over the years, not just from animal activists.
When doin kapparos these chickens end up better then broiler Chickens for many reasons. Such as they are not injured and live to see the knife and not die of sicknesses. So a classic chicken any non jew eats has gone thru worse than what these chickens do.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2015, 10:23:05 PM »
And the chicken is then donated to the hungry in our town.

How is that different than a slaughterhouse?
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Offline henche

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2015, 10:24:22 PM »
How can swinging a chicken over your head then cutting its throat ever be humane (if I am understanding correctly)? They can be treated more humane than slaughterhouse chickens but that is not saying much. This coming from someone that just ate about 8 wings for a night time snack.  :-[

How can cutting someone open every be humane? If you're a surgeon.

What's not humane about cutting a chicken's throat to feed it to hungry people as charity? 

Context matters.

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2015, 10:25:36 PM »
How can swinging a chicken over your head then cutting its throat ever be humane (if I am understanding correctly)? They can be treated more humane than slaughterhouse chickens but that is not saying much. This coming from someone that just ate about 8 wings for a night time snack.  :-[
In a classic slaughter house the chicken goes thru a machine upside down before getting it head chopped.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2015, 10:29:29 PM »
Instead of protesting, go setup a humane kaporas at a 10% premium and see what happens?

I'm not protesting (unless this counts) and it isn't my minhag to do kapporas with chickens.
You cant expect a non religious Jew or non Jew to open a humane kapporas center, that would be absurd.

IIRC in some seforim there are examples of rabbonim abolishing the minhag when there were rampant problems with shechita. It's really important keep the minhag however possible, but how long does there need to be rampant violations of Halacha in places like Brooklyn before you rethink your stance?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2015, 10:30:59 PM »
How can cutting someone open every be humane? If you're a surgeon.
You lost me on this one.
What's not humane about cutting a chicken's throat to feed it to hungry people as charity? 

Context matters.
What you do with the chicken has nothing to do with the way it was killed.

It does not shine a favorable light on any religion when these type of customs come to light.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2015, 10:31:39 PM »
I've never done kaporas in Brooklyn and therefore have no comment.
If you feel passionately about it, I'll invest in your humane kaporas offering.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2015, 10:32:18 PM »
You lost me on this one.What you do with the chicken has nothing to do with the way it was killed.

It does not shine a favorable light on any religion when these type of customs come to light.
That's the same way we slaughter all meat. It's intended to be the least painful manner of death.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #97 on: September 20, 2015, 10:32:37 PM »
How is that different than a slaughterhouse?
In a classic slaughter house the chicken goes thru a machine upside down before getting it head chopped.
I was saying a slaughterhouse is probably worse but cutting its throat does not make it humane.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #98 on: September 20, 2015, 10:32:40 PM »
You lost me on this one.What you do with the chicken has nothing to do with the way it was killed.

It does not shine a favorable light on any religion when these type of customs come to light.

Slaughtering isn't an inhumane way of killing a chicken.

Offline Dan

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Re: Boycott Kaporas?
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2015, 10:33:04 PM »
I was saying a slaughterhouse is probably worse but cutting its throat does not make it humane.
That's the same way we slaughter all meat. It's intended to be the least painful manner of death.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.