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« Last edited by bb1836 on May 12, 2019, 08:15:10 PM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread  (Read 680227 times)

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1000 on: November 18, 2016, 11:01:00 AM »
Agreed. I see it a personal level. I have some close relatives who are learning/Teaching, and seem to be coping financially better then me and DW who are both full timers.

This is really the point of starting the convo. That and to see if im the only one who thinks this way.  I'm really trying to understand why something isn't be done.
Are they coming better because they have fewer expenses for necessities, or because they have simpler lifestyles, or is it that they have better coping skills?

Offline ushdadude

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1001 on: November 18, 2016, 12:29:08 PM »
Are they coming better because they have fewer expenses for necessities, or because they have simpler lifestyles, or is it that they have better coping skills?

Or is it that they pay 1k tuition per child instead of 13k?

Offline Sport

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1002 on: November 20, 2016, 06:24:03 PM »
What's recommended at mikes burgers ?

Offline Cheesecake

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1003 on: November 20, 2016, 06:47:12 PM »
Or is it that they pay 1k tuition per child instead of 13k?
That is grossly underestimated.

Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1004 on: November 20, 2016, 08:01:00 PM »
What's recommended at mikes burgers ?

All their burgers but esp Breakfast burger. They give big portions for their salads, I like their baby chicken salad. Ive never had a bad experience with their food its all solid and have very good service.

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1005 on: November 20, 2016, 08:22:42 PM »
That is grossly underestimated.

What is "grossly understated"? Do you have any real info you would like to share?

As far as I know, low income families get the same tuition breaks as Rabbeim. They just have to fill out the forms and show what they make and spend.

But it's true, if a family spends $10,000+ on Pesach hotels, or takes their families to Eretz Yisroel for Sukkos, or goes on expensive vacations, they will probably not get the same breaks as Rabbeim who cannot afford all that. Klei Kodesh also cannot afford to eat out eat the various eateries discussed on this forum. They also have trouble paying their rent/mortage and monthly expenses.

Just so you should know: The Five Towns is not a place for Klei Kodesh to live. Housing is over the top, food costs more, clothing is more expensive locally. And in general, it's a very expensive place to live. It's a lot easier to live in Lakewood or the like, where the cost of living is much less. And their children do not have the same nisoyon of wanting and needing to have what their friends have here.

When Klei Kodesh live here, they are putting themselves on the line for the better of the community. They should be recognized as such, and not be treated or looked at like shmattas. Maybe you should try to sit in a classroom with 30 spoiled kids. Be mechanech them, have patience for them, go home and have to prepare and grade their papers. And to put up with the calls from parents at the same time. All this while tutoring after hours so they can pay their bills.

Offline Freddie

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1006 on: November 20, 2016, 09:07:14 PM »
What is "grossly understated"? Do you have any real info you would like to share?

As far as I know, low income families get the same tuition breaks as Rabbeim. They just have to fill out the forms and show what they make and spend.

But it's true, if a family spends $10,000+ on Pesach hotels, or takes their families to Eretz Yisroel for Sukkos, or goes on expensive vacations, they will probably not get the same breaks as Rabbeim who cannot afford all that. Klei Kodesh also cannot afford to eat out eat the various eateries discussed on this forum. They also have trouble paying their rent/mortage and monthly expenses.

Just so you should know: The Five Towns is not a place for Klei Kodesh to live. Housing is over the top, food costs more, clothing is more expensive locally. And in general, it's a very expensive place to live. It's a lot easier to live in Lakewood or the like, where the cost of living is much less. And their children do not have the same nisoyon of wanting and needing to have what their friends have here.

When Klei Kodesh live here, they are putting themselves on the line for the better of the community. They should be recognized as such, and not be treated or looked at like shmattas. Maybe you should try to sit in a classroom with 30 spoiled kids. Be mechanech them, have patience for them, go home and have to prepare and grade their papers. And to put up with the calls from parents at the same time. All this while tutoring after hours so they can pay their bills.

Interesting post but isn't housing even more, like as much as 50% more, in Brooklyn?

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1007 on: November 20, 2016, 09:28:30 PM »
Interesting post but isn't housing even more, like as much as 50% more, in Brooklyn?

First of all, Brooklyn is also an expensive place to live. But not close to Far Rockaway/ Five Towns. There are some cheaper options there. In our area, it's almost impossible to find a house rental at all, and when they do become available, you can't find anything decent sized for under $4000. Forget about buying.

And in Brooklyn, the rest of life is a cheaper too. Five Towns caters to the affluent, not the Klei Kodesh.

BTW, for all those that complain about the GG Keli Kodesh discount, apparently it's not what it's made out to be. Most departments are not discounted at all. Sale items (even those fake ones) are not discounted. (Like the grapes "on sale" for 2.99). Brachs gave a discount across the board. In GG, on a $150 order, about $30 or less has discount applied. On the rest everyone gets ripped off without discrimination.

And what about Seasons? They only offer discounts to "tutzachers" like Hatzalah, Cheveirim and the like. But not to Klei Kodesh. Doesn't that seem strange?

Offline Freddie

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1008 on: November 20, 2016, 09:34:30 PM »
A 4br house in the Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn is a million dollars. You can't get anything that's not a dump and in a non-Jewish area for less than 650k. In Cedarhurst there are nice 4 br houses for 600k.

How does that shtim with what you are saying?

Maybe what you mean is that there are not a lot of options to rent a 1 or 2 br apartment in 5T. That makes sense as 5T is more suburban it doesn't really have big buildings.

Bottom line: buying a house in Williamsburg, BP, Flatbush or Crown Heights is over one and a half times more expensive than buying in 5T.


Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1009 on: November 20, 2016, 09:52:28 PM »
A 4br house in the Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn is a million dollars. You can't get anything that's not a dump and in a non-Jewish area for less than 650k. In Cedarhurst there are nice 4 br houses for 600k.

How does that shtim with what you are saying?

Maybe what you mean is that there are not a lot of options to rent a 1 or 2 br apartment in 5T. That makes sense as 5T is more suburban it doesn't really have big buildings.

Bottom line: buying a house in Williamsburg, BP, Flatbush or Crown Heights is over one and a half times more expensive than buying in 5T.
I was primarily talking abount renting a HOUSE, as many klei kodesh cannot afford to buy in today's market. There are almost no rentals available, and when they do become available, there is usually a bidding war. Nothing half decent goes for under $4000. In Brooklyn, it goes for less.

About Cedarhurst: First of all, Klei Kodesh would like to live in neighborhoods which suits their needs. They need a place where they are comfortable davening. And they need neighbors which they feel are safe for their children. Why would someone stay in Chinuch if their children will end up being exposed to things by their neighbors which are on a different standard than their own. That is being Mechanech other children at the expense of theirs! It's true every neighborhood has all types of people living there, but klei kodesh need at least some of their own type in the neighborhood. That severely limits where to live in the Five Towns.

Besides, realistically, you cannot buy a decent sized house in Cedarhurst for $600,000. Maybe one that needs $100,000 or more of work.  (Which, just so you understand, Klei Kodesh cannot do. They need to borrow for the down payment. For the renovations you need cash, which most do not have. They also do not have enough income to get approved for another loan.) Or a 1.5 bathroom home where the teenage kids share the bathroom with parents. Not ideal.

Don't be fooled by advertisements. There is nothing for that price. And then there's all the other expenses here...


Offline Freddie

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1010 on: November 20, 2016, 10:07:00 PM »
Very enlightening.

Offline DP7

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1011 on: November 20, 2016, 10:24:30 PM »
About Cedarhurst: First of all, Klei Kodesh would like to live in neighborhoods which suits their needs. They need a place where they are comfortable davening. And they need neighbors which they feel are safe for their children. Why would someone stay in Chinuch if their children will end up being exposed to things by their neighbors which are on a different standard than their own. That is being Mechanech other children at the expense of theirs! It's true every neighborhood has all types of people living there, but klei kodesh need at least some of their own type in the neighborhood. That severely limits where to live in the Five Towns.

Where do you live?

Offline grodnoking

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1012 on: November 20, 2016, 11:41:05 PM »
I was primarily talking abount renting a HOUSE, as many klei kodesh cannot afford to buy in today's market. There are almost no rentals available, and when they do become available, there is usually a bidding war. Nothing half decent goes for under $4000. In Brooklyn, it goes for less.

About Cedarhurst: First of all, Klei Kodesh would like to live in neighborhoods which suits their needs. They need a place where they are comfortable davening. And they need neighbors which they feel are safe for their children. Why would someone stay in Chinuch if their children will end up being exposed to things by their neighbors which are on a different standard than their own. That is being Mechanech other children at the expense of theirs! It's true every neighborhood has all types of people living there, but klei kodesh need at least some of their own type in the neighborhood. That severely limits where to live in the Five Towns.

Besides, realistically, you cannot buy a decent sized house in Cedarhurst for $600,000. Maybe one that needs $100,000 or more of work.  (Which, just so you understand, Klei Kodesh cannot do. They need to borrow for the down payment. For the renovations you need cash, which most do not have. They also do not have enough income to get approved for another loan.) Or a 1.5 bathroom home where the teenage kids share the bathroom with parents. Not ideal.

Don't be fooled by advertisements. There is nothing for that price. And then there's all the other expenses here...
Why don't they drive in from Far Rockaway?
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Offline Abebee

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1013 on: November 20, 2016, 11:42:24 PM »
Why don't they drive in from Far Rockaway?
Who's problem are we trying to solve here? ???

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1014 on: November 20, 2016, 11:46:02 PM »
Why don't they drive in from Far Rockaway?
Huh?!?

Offline 3yummyboys

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1015 on: November 21, 2016, 01:59:48 PM »
Why don't they drive in from Far Rockaway?

Far Rockaway is more expensive than the five towns at this point (at least to buy).

Offline springles

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1016 on: November 21, 2016, 03:16:06 PM »

About Cedarhurst: First of all, Klei Kodesh would like to live in neighborhoods which suits their needs. They need a place where they are comfortable davening. And they need neighbors which they feel are safe for their children. Why would someone stay in Chinuch if their children will end up being exposed to things by their neighbors which are on a different standard than their own. That is being Mechanech other children at the expense of theirs! It's true every neighborhood has all types of people living there, but klei kodesh need at least some of their own type in the neighborhood. That severely limits where to live in the Five Towns.


As someone who lives in Cedarhurst I am not sure if I am supposed to feel offended by this or not.

Also, you are saying that there arent any "klei kodesh" in Cedarhurst? There most certainly are. And good shuls to daven in. And children that you can feel safe letting your children play with. But you are talking about what these Rebbeim need and are entitled to as something that everyone else should pay for this. You speak of how the Rebbeim have to "suffer" and be machenech these spoiled 5T children but you are describing quite a spoiled mechanech. To be honest I dont think the Rebbeim are spoiled but thats what you describe. I also dont think they view their students as spoiled, if they do I dont think they would make very good Rebbeim.

I dont really want to get into an argument about this topic, we obviously view some things differently. I just wanted to give you a picture of how some might view what you have written.

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1017 on: November 21, 2016, 03:36:30 PM »
As someone who lives in Cedarhurst I am not sure if I am supposed to feel offended by this or not.

Also, you are saying that there arent any "klei kodesh" in Cedarhurst? There most certainly are. And good shuls to daven in. And children that you can feel safe letting your children play with. But you are talking about what these Rebbeim need and are entitled to as something that everyone else should pay for this. You speak of how the Rebbeim have to "suffer" and be machenech these spoiled 5T children but you are describing quite a spoiled mechanech. To be honest I dont think the Rebbeim are spoiled but thats what you describe. I also dont think they view their students as spoiled, if they do I dont think they would make very good Rebbeim.

I dont really want to get into an argument about this topic, we obviously view some things differently. I just wanted to give you a picture of how some might view what you have written.

I never said there are no klei kodesh in Cedarhurst. There are a few. Not many. Which limits where one of them would want to live.There certainly are "good shuls". But the needs of a klei kodesh are different than a good Baal Habayis. That is why most Baal Habatim would not appreciate davening in a Yeshiva Minyan. Not that one is better or worse. Just different. I also don't remember saying Rabeim "suffer". All I meant was that there job is not as easy as some might think. But most good Rabbeim probably love every minute of it.

"But you are talking about what these Rebbeim need and are entitled to as something that everyone else should pay for this" That is true. As clearly stated in Shulchan Aruch, we are responsible to support and pay for those who are mechanech our children. That should be our first priority. If they cannot afford the cost of living, they will not have the proper mindset to focus on our children. Their profession should be no different than any other. They require skill, training, and a lot of take home work. Many of them work 7 days a week. Why shouldn't they get the same pay as any other professional?

Offline Got a clue

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1018 on: November 29, 2016, 11:24:56 AM »
Is there a place that removes the lift and cut from a shaver here in FR?

Offline grodnoking

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1019 on: November 29, 2016, 11:37:53 AM »
Is there a place that removes the lift and cut from a shaver here in FR?
You can probably do it yourself with a pair of tweezers.
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