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« Last edited by bb1836 on May 12, 2019, 08:15:10 PM »

Author Topic: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread  (Read 343700 times)

Offline coralsnake

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1620 on: January 31, 2018, 02:16:29 PM »
How does that turn into a school issue? The school has a curriculum, which they teach, during their school year. They are there to educate, not babysit. I understand why parents want more school, but that's not the school's concern. Besides for the fact that people arent factoring in the additional Tuition costs. More days of school=more tuition. Maybe call up the camps and tell them that instead of 8 week programs, they should have 10 week programs?
Now you bring up a separate issue. I challenge you to find one camp that is a full 8 weeks. 
But regarding tuition- do they give a discount in September when there's 8 days of school for the whole month?
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Offline momo

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1621 on: January 31, 2018, 02:20:41 PM »
Now you bring up a separate issue. I challenge you to find one camp that is a full 8 weeks. 
But regarding tuition- do they give a discount in September when there's 8 days of school for the whole month?
You pay for the full school year, as constituted, with the amount of days that they have scheduled. If you are adding days to that, there will be a cost associated with it. Picture your boss coming into the office tomorrow and saying, "coral you will now be working 3 additional weeks this year, for the same salary". Will that fly? Me thinks not.

Offline coralsnake

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1622 on: January 31, 2018, 02:33:47 PM »
You pay for the full school year, as constituted, with the amount of days that they have scheduled. If you are adding days to that, there will be a cost associated with it. Picture your boss coming into the office tomorrow and saying, "coral you will now be working 3 additional weeks this year, for the same salary". Will that fly? Me thinks not.
The camps get away with it every year cutting days and raising rates.

The real issue to me is the excessive amount of days off during the year especially around YT. Please explain why girls in high school need off a full 2 weeks before Pesach, and elementary school just a few less days than that?
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Offline momo

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1623 on: January 31, 2018, 02:58:05 PM »
The camps get away with it every year cutting days and raising rates.

The real issue to me is the excessive amount of days off during the year especially around YT. Please explain why girls in high school need off a full 2 weeks before Pesach, and elementary school just a few less days than that?
The teachers are Moms, and have their own houses to clean, and yomim tovim to prepare for. The theory with High school girls, is that they will be home helping watch the kids/preparing for yom tov. I understand the frustration. Im a parent with children in school, and would love to not have the burden of Babysitting/finding things to do to keep the kids busy during these extended vacations. However i dont think it's the schools responsibility.

Offline coralsnake

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1624 on: January 31, 2018, 03:06:35 PM »
The teachers are Moms, and have their own houses to clean, and yomim tovim to prepare for. The theory with High school girls, is that they will be home helping watch the kids/preparing for yom tov. I understand the frustration. Im a parent with children in school, and would love to not have the burden of Babysitting/finding things to do to keep the kids busy during these extended vacations. However i dont think it's the schools responsibility.
Yes and the 6th graders are off for a week scrubbing toilets in my house too.   ::)

What about the kids who are home every day before the school day officially ends because the teachers dismiss them? I know, I know, the teachers are moms too and want to get home to their kids...
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Offline momo

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1625 on: January 31, 2018, 03:14:50 PM »
Yes and the 6th graders are off for a week scrubbing toilets in my house too.   ::)

What about the kids who are home every day before the school day officially ends because the teachers dismiss them? I know, I know, the teachers are moms too and want to get home to their kids...
Cant say i know what you are talking about, regarding kids getting home early. I'm not the great defender of schools, they all have issues, just that it's not their responsibility to babysit your children, but rather to educate them.

Offline elit

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1626 on: January 31, 2018, 03:42:20 PM »
The teachers are Moms, and have their own houses to clean, and yomim tovim to prepare for. The theory with High school girls, is that they will be home helping watch the kids/preparing for yom tov. I understand the frustration. Im a parent with children in school, and would love to not have the burden of Babysitting/finding things to do to keep the kids busy during these extended vacations. However i dont think it's the schools responsibility.
I love that argument.... yet at the Same time teachers complain how little they get paid.... work the Same amount of days as any other job and then we can begin to talk..

Offline momo

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1627 on: January 31, 2018, 03:54:46 PM »
I love that argument.... yet at the Same time teachers complain how little they get paid.... work the Same amount of days as any other job and then we can begin to talk..
Do you think teachers are well compensated? I do not. That also has nothing to do with anything. No sane person would be willing to work more hours, for the same compensation. Ergo more days= more dollars.

Offline elit

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1628 on: January 31, 2018, 04:33:40 PM »
Do you think teachers are well compensated? I do not. That also has nothing to do with anything. No sane person would be willing to work more hours, for the same compensation. Ergo more days= more dollars.
I do think they are well compensated considering they only work 2/3 of the year

Offline momo

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1629 on: January 31, 2018, 04:34:44 PM »
Ok sure :o

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1630 on: January 31, 2018, 05:29:17 PM »
I do think they are well compensated considering they only work 2/3 of the year

OH REALLY?!?

I feel bad for your kids teachers!

I assume we are talking about the main home-room morning teacher/ Rebbi. You are obviously not in any position of understanding the job of a teacher.

You try sitting in a classroom with 30 kids every day. It doesn't matter what age. You try having the patience dealing with 30 different, and some challenging, personalities for hours a day. You try teaching material in an interesting way and grabbing the attention of each student in the classroom, while every single word you say is weighed and measured and you are held accountable. One second of lost temper can cost them their job.

Most good teachers/ Rabeim go through extensive training just for the classroom management part of teaching. Many of our fine teachers/ Rabeim go home after school and plotz from exhaustion.

Then, when they go home, they are not done. There is hours of preparation of the materiel. A small slip-up in class can cause a teacher a lot of trouble. Everything has to be 100% accurate. Then there's typing sheets, grading papers, dealing with parents on a nightly basis. Yes, in a classroom of 30, most teachers will spend hours upon hours with parents weekly. Then there's discussing issues with principals etc. A teacher who leaves their classroom at 1, will usually not get home until 3.

Maybe drive by your children's teacher's house and see when their lights go off at night. They are on call weekends too. Rabeim don't even have Sundays off. Not one day to "just catch up" on things.

Then there are meetings, training, networking, etc. which happen out of the class time.

Teaching is not for everyone. But as you and some others show in their posts, it is a thankless job. Teachers are professional as are lawyers and doctors. The only difference is, teachers have less free time and still can't pay their bills.

And btw, it is pretty  disgusting how are system is set up. Rabeim and Mechanchos are on completely different pay scales. In many ways, it is harder for for the women. They have to still take care of their house and children like every mother, and still hold out the same responsibilities as the Rabeim. Why do they get paid 1/4 what the Rabeim get. They also do not share the same benefits. In any other society, the women would get together and take action..

Offline elit

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1631 on: January 31, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »
OH REALLY?!?

I feel bad for your kids teachers!

I assume we are talking about the main home-room morning teacher/ Rebbi. You are obviously not in any position of understanding the job of a teacher.

You try sitting in a classroom with 30 kids every day. It doesn't matter what age. You try having the patience dealing with 30 different, and some challenging, personalities for hours a day. You try teaching material in an interesting way and grabbing the attention of each student in the classroom, while every single word you say is weighed and measured and you are held accountable. One second of lost temper can cost them their job.

Most good teachers/ Rabeim go through extensive training just for the classroom management part of teaching. Many of our fine teachers/ Rabeim go home after school and plotz from exhaustion.

Then, when they go home, they are not done. There is hours of preparation of the materiel. A small slip-up in class can cause a teacher a lot of trouble. Everything has to be 100% accurate. Then there's typing sheets, grading papers, dealing with parents on a nightly basis. Yes, in a classroom of 30, most teachers will spend hours upon hours with parents weekly. Then there's discussing issues with principals etc. A teacher who leaves their classroom at 1, will usually not get home until 3.

Maybe drive by your children's teacher's house and see when their lights go off at night. They are on call weekends too. Rabeim don't even have Sundays off. Not one day to "just catch up" on things.

Then there are meetings, training, networking, etc. which happen out of the class time.

Teaching is not for everyone. But as you and some others show in their posts, it is a thankless job. Teachers are professional as are lawyers and doctors. The only difference is, teachers have less free time and still can't pay their bills.

And btw, it is pretty  disgusting how are system is set up. Rabeim and Mechanchos are on completely different pay scales. In many ways, it is harder for for the women. They have to still take care of their house and children like every mother, and still hold out the same responsibilities as the Rabeim. Why do they get paid 1/4 what the Rabeim get. They also do not share the same benefits. In any other society, the women would get together and take action..
I never said its not a really hard job but so ate so many other jobs and they don't have 2.5 months off in the summer plus many days and weeks throughout the year which comes out to about 2/3 a year

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1632 on: January 31, 2018, 06:03:00 PM »
I never said its not a really hard job but so ate so many other jobs and they don't have 2.5 months off in the summer plus many days and weeks throughout the year which comes out to about 2/3 a year

Rabeim have Sundays. Both Rabeim and teachers work 18 hour days. They work more hours a year even with days off. And then they need summers to supplement their income.

Offline elit

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1633 on: January 31, 2018, 06:11:36 PM »
Rabeim have Sundays. Both Rabeim and teachers work 18 hour days. They work more hours a year even with days off. And then they need summers to supplement their income.
again there are so many jobs that have as much if not more hours than teachers... don't think I have to list all of them and they don't get nearly as many days off and often have to use their vacation days on Yom Tov....

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1634 on: January 31, 2018, 06:22:30 PM »
again there are so many jobs that have as much if not more hours than teachers... don't think I have to list all of them and they don't get nearly as many days off and often have to use their vacation days on Yom Tov....

I really feel bad for your children's teachers and Rabeim. It's unappreciative parents like you who make their job that much harder.

Offline elit

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1635 on: January 31, 2018, 06:41:21 PM »
I really feel bad for your children's teachers and Rabeim. It's unappreciative parents like you who make their job that much harder.
could you respond to my point with out attacking me

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1636 on: January 31, 2018, 07:01:40 PM »
could you respond to my point with out attacking me
I did respond. You did not accept. Name one other profession which is as time consuming, emotionally stressing, as little benefits, and pays so little. Especially to a Mechneches. Rabeim don't make what they deserve, but the women get embarrassing salaries.

Educators are trained professionals and should get paid like trained professionals.

Not to mention, in some schools, they are very behind on the checks.

I did not mean to attack you. I genuinely feel bad for Educators whose parent body does not properly value their hard work. Every Teacher/ Rebbi wants to feel appreciated. Even if they don't get paid what they deserve. You obviously don't realize how much these people are doing for our children.

Offline Sport

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1637 on: January 31, 2018, 07:14:10 PM »
I did respond. You did not accept. Name one other profession which is as time consuming, emotionally stressing, as little benefits, and pays so little. Especially to a Mechneches. Rabeim don't make what they deserve, but the women get embarrassing salaries.

Educators are trained professionals and should get paid like trained professionals.

Not to mention, in some schools, they are very behind on the checks.

I did not mean to attack you. I genuinely feel bad for Educators whose parent body does not properly value their hard work. Every Teacher/ Rebbi wants to feel appreciated. Even if they don't get paid what they deserve. You obviously don't realize how much these people are doing for our children.
They can be appreciated without exaggerating thier credentials and how hard they work.
Yea, they work very hard and its a physical and emotionally demanding job- trust me I know as I've been there. But you dont help their case by over stating how hard they work and that no other profession works as hard as they do.
Also, what are the minimum qualifications to be a rebbi in a typical school, do they need any degree? How much student loan debt does the typical mechaneich have in order to get the degree neccesary for their position?

Offline elit

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1638 on: January 31, 2018, 07:32:51 PM »
I did respond. You did not accept. Name one other profession which is as time consuming, emotionally stressing, as little benefits, and pays so little. Especially to a Mechneches. Rabeim don't make what they deserve, but the women get embarrassing salaries.

I'm going to ignore the respect part....
there is.no doubt most rebbeim had very hard stressful jobs with a lot of work outside of school I have many siblings (and at one point even a spouse that was a teacher and even left the job bec of the lack of pay) but to say that there arent other jobs with that level or more of stress is completely not in touch with reality. ask anybody who runs their own business, 1099 employee, the many people who work for a non profit, and so many other jobs what their hours and stress level are like.... and then when you do a pure numbers cheshbon the fact that teachers only work less than 9/12 of the year (plus tuition discounts) then it really is not as far off as ppl make it sound.

that's not even mentioning that all the days their kids are off they are off as well...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 07:37:15 PM by elit »

Offline sammyp

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Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
« Reply #1639 on: January 31, 2018, 09:25:38 PM »
I'm going to ignore the respect part....
there is.no doubt most rebbeim had very hard stressful jobs with a lot of work outside of school I have many siblings (and at one point even a spouse that was a teacher and even left the job bec of the lack of pay) but to say that there arent other jobs with that level or more of stress is completely not in touch with reality. ask anybody who runs their own business, 1099 employee, the many people who work for a non profit, and so many other jobs what their hours and stress level are like.... and then when you do a pure numbers cheshbon the fact that teachers only work less than 9/12 of the year (plus tuition discounts) then it really is not as far off as ppl make it sound.

that's not even mentioning that all the days their kids are off they are off as well...

Please name one job which pays as little as a Mechaneches with as many hours and work. There is a reason why schools have such a hard time finding good Mechanchos. The work load us tremendous, unappreciated, and the pay is horrible.

 And when you say 9/12th of a year, what about Sundays? It must not be easy never having even one day a week to catch up on things. Every seven Sundays is anither qork qeek, but harfer. And are Rabeim's salaries even 9/12th of the other jobs you refer to. I agree there are many people struggling, but this is an entire industry who are underpaid.