5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread

[justaregularguy]

Big crash on Caffrey and beach 9th in far Rockaway

4 goyim in a Mercedes hit a mini van causing it to flip upside down.
The goyim all got out of the car and ran away

Bh the Jewish ppl in the van crawled out from what I’m told and are ok

[JuryDuty]

https://nypost.com/2021/05/23/long-island-rabbis-accused-of-mafia-like-methods-in-kosher-turf-battle/

[yitzgar]

They are salivating

[Positive energy]

Wonder if this 2 restaurant's will gain something from such article

[mercaz1]

does anyone have a reasonable one-man band?

[justaregularguy]

https://nypost.com/2021/05/23/long-island-rabbis-accused-of-mafia-like-methods-in-kosher-turf-battle/

Oy this is embarrassing
I didn’t read it but it shouldn’t make it to public news 🤦‍♂️

[shiframeir]

Oy this is embarrassing
I didn’t read it but it shouldn’t make it to public news 🤦‍♂️

i stopped going to chimichurri bc of loh plug and following my rabbi (based on the hope to keep one hashgacha and not end up with several and not knowing who to follow), but if my wife would say she really wants it i'd tell her she could eat it. now i won't let anyone buy from there until they do a real apology. terrible chillul hashem, and at a time when we really don't want it. look the jews are gangsters in palestine and gangsters in five towns. Also don't get Tomer piling on, not sure i will even buy packaged stuff there now.
really sad bc chimichurri is delicious, and i really want to try a brgr...

[ushdadude]

https://nypost.com/2021/05/23/long-island-rabbis-accused-of-mafia-like-methods-in-kosher-turf-battle/

how do they even prove the loss of revenue was from the vaad and not, say, covid?
especially 550, was never full even before covid

[yzj]

Rabbis telling their congregants they are not comfortable with the halachic acceptability of an establishment. There is no way the stores will win this one. The burden of proof to demonstrate that this wasn’t a first amendment exercise will be sky high. Probably more of a scare tactic than anything else.

[Saulius]

how do they even prove the loss of revenue was from the vaad and not, say, covid?
especially 550, was never full even before covid

I would guess that with Covid -- revenue for take out / delivery orders should have increased? - And Covid started around March 2020 and the change of hashgacha was in July 2020. 

There is a 24 page complaint, copying and pasting 2 lines:  "26. Additionally, the Plaintiff's have received messages from several local community members indicating that local Rabbis were pressuring individuals to cut all ties with Plaintiff because of their new Hashgacha.

27. Furthermore, an individual that had previously organized an enormous volume of weekly deliveries for Plaintiffs to Westchester for several months contacted Plaintiff Company and indicated via text message that he had to stop doing the deliveries due to pressure from his local Rabbi to cut ties with Plaintiff."

They are suing for "Two Million Dollars ($5,000,000.00) together with interest, attorneys fees, cost of suit, plus loss business profits from July 6th, 2020 to present...."

[yungermanchik]

"Two Million Dollars ($5,000,000.00)

HUH?!

[Saulius]

HUH?!

I know, that's what it says in the complaint ...

[yungermanchik]

I know, that's what it says in the complaint ...

Wow! and they made that mistake (at least) 4 times!

[justaregularguy]

Wow! and they made that mistake (at least) 4 times!

you know with like block letters/numbers (on a digital clock) the 2 is just a backwards 5, so maybe they confused it lol

I don’t want to dig up a huge debate right now, but what is the original reason they don’t use the vaad when literally every single restaurant uses it, even Dunkin’ Donuts? Don’t tell me costs bc that’s just what it is, raise ur prices like everyone else does

[yzj]

you know with like block letters/numbers (on a digital clock) the 2 is just a backwards 5, so maybe they confused it lol

I don’t want to dig up a huge debate right now, but what is the original reason they don’t use the vaad when literally every single restaurant uses it, even Dunkin’ Donuts? Don’t tell me costs bc that’s just what it is, raise ur prices like everyone else does

From the article:
The Vaad supervisor, he said, “would come in two or three times a day to check for bugs in the produce at $25 an hour. We couldn’t afford that.”

Sounds like they thought they knew better than the Rabbis about kashrus. I haven’t eaten in the Five Towns in a while but years back bugs in the produce was a huge issue and the yeshiveleit all avoided certain Lawrence/Cedarhurst stores that were known to be quite problematic in this regard.

[momo]

Just FYI this is the "B'D" that they wanted to go to.

[justaregularguy]

From the article:
The Vaad supervisor, he said, “would come in two or three times a day to check for bugs in the produce at $25 an hour. We couldn’t afford that.”

Sounds like they thought they knew better than the Rabbis about kashrus. I haven’t eaten in the Five Towns in a while but years back bugs in the produce was a huge issue and the yeshiveleit all avoided certain Lawrence/Cedarhurst stores that were known to be quite problematic in this regard.

I have no idea what the going rate of mashgichim is but it seems like everyone is going w it. Again you can’t say you can’t afford it bc u just factor it into the price and the vaad approves you and tons of ppl come to ur store. If u don’t make good food maybe that’s the issue but don’t save money on a hechshar- make better food.
PSA- I’ve never eaten in either store so I’m not at all saying they don’t make good food- in fact ppl here have posted that they love it.

[sammyp]

It doesn't really matter to the consumer why they switched supervisions.

When the Vaad first put out the letters not to eat by these establishments, it was purely political. The new certifier kept all the same mashgichim and at that point did not even up the standards yet. When these mashgichim worked for the Vaad, they were fine. But now that they are working for Mehadrin, they became no good.

The bases for this lawsuit seems to be because the Vaad told people not to eat there for personal gain, not because the standard of kashrus was any lower. This is clear and provable.

The Rabonim of the new certification also happen to be huge talmidei chochomim. They know what they are doing.

Competition is a good thing. It helps keep everyone on their toes. Ask Rabbi Eisen. He was the one who started Kehila Kashrus to compete with the Vaad of Flatbush. When he did it, it was o.k..


And btw, other establishments also wanted to switch to competing hashgochos in the past, but they were threatened by the Vaad.

The Vaad is control hungry. And money hungry. There also happens to be a lot of improvements they need to make.

[elazarmn]

so its not that simple... @sammyp

once the Mashgiach left the organization he was working for and joined a new one under a new rabbinical Auth. it doesn't make him a bad Mashgiach... rather the heigherarc that he calls to is not the same and there for in this case would be not as good. The Vaad put in place certain things that the mashgiach needs to follow. Even if he continues to do all the same things that he was doing under the previous org. he still doesn't have the same rep of the previous org.

The Vaads been in town for a very long time and helped us with some very stinky and slimy businesses. having more than one option is not always the best.

Brooklyn is  a whole different world. Cant compare, honestly don't even think there was ever one sole Hashgacha in bk in the past 25yrs

[sammyp]

so its not that simple... @sammyp

once the Mashgiach left the organization he was working for and joined a new one under a new rabbinical Auth. it doesn't make him a bad Mashgiach... rather the heigherarc that he calls to is not the same and there for in this case would be not as good. The Vaad put in place certain things that the mashgiach needs to follow. Even if he continues to do all the same things that he was doing under the previous org. he still doesn't have the same rep of the previous org.

The Vaads been in town for a very long time and helped us with some very stinky and slimy businesses. having more than one option is not always the best.

Brooklyn is  a whole different world. Cant compare, honestly don't even think there was ever one sole Hashgacha in bk in the past 25yrs

There was only one Hashgacha in Flatbush until Rabbi Risen opened a competing one.

The new Mehadrin has the same standards as the Vaad with a few enhancements in place. They are great Rabbis who consult with very experienced Kashrus people. Being that they use they same mashgichim, there is no reason to believe their Kashrus is any less reliable.

The Vaads slandering of them was not a religious issue. It was purely political. That is why this case has legal standing.

In fact, some Rabbis who signed the letter told visiting guests they can eat from Mehadrim certified  establishments since they don't live here and they do not owe loyalty to the Vaad.

I understand feeling a loyalty towards the Vàad. There is nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, there is no reason to slander anyone else.

Additionally, there are many different types of people living in town now. Different people have different priorities and different standards in Kashrus. For example, some Rabbis will not allow any certification on a non Jewish owned establishment, or a restaurant owned and operated by an owner who does not observe Shabbos. There are different hidurim in what can be considered bug-free, or which shechita follows different atringabcies.

Why can't there be a Hashgacha in town who caters to those people. They want to be able to know which places meet their standards. There should be nothing wrong with that. Especially after they worked with the Vaad trying to make a "Vaad Mehadrin" certification under the existing Vaad.(The Vaad will not even allow supermarkets to label which shechita the beef and poultry is. They feel if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for everybody. In reality, people have preferances, which is why in Brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood and almost everywhere else, the shechita is labeled on package.) They only opened a new Hashgacha after all negotiations failed.