5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread

[stooges44]

Dear Resident:

Please be advised that on Thursday, May 27th, there will be a rally opposing anti-Semitism in Andrew J. Parise Cedarhurst Park.

For security purposes, the Nassau County Police will be closing Oak, Summit, Washington and Cedarhurst Avenues to all traffic at various times. If you are parked on any of these streets in the vicinity of the Park and need to use your car after 6:00, pm we suggest you move it to an unaffected area so that you will not have any difficulties getting out.

We thank you for your cooperation.

[coralsnake]

Dear Resident:

Please be advised that on Thursday, May 27th, there will be a rally opposing anti-Semitism in Andrew J. Parise Cedarhurst Park.

For security purposes, the Nassau County Police will be closing Oak, Summit, Washington and Cedarhurst Avenues to all traffic at various times. If you are parked on any of these streets in the vicinity of the Park and need to use your car after 6:00, pm we suggest you move it to an unaffected area so that you will not have any difficulties getting out.

We thank you for your cooperation.

[shiframeir]

The bases for this lawsuit seems to be because the Vaad told people not to eat there for personal gain, not because the standard of kashrus was any lower. This is clear and provable.

u speak of slander, please if its clear and provable can u provide a resource? as i understand it the rabbis of the community/Vaad get $0 from the vaad.

[yerushabubby]

There was only one Hashgacha in Flatbush until Rabbi Risen opened a competing one.

The new Mehadrin has the same standards as the Vaad with a few enhancements in place. They are great Rabbis who consult with very experienced Kashrus people. Being that they use they same mashgichim, there is no reason to believe their Kashrus is any less reliable.

The Vaads slandering of them was not a religious issue. It was purely political. That is why this case has legal standing.

In fact, some Rabbis who signed the letter told visiting guests they can eat from Mehadrim certified  establishments since they don't live here and they do not owe loyalty to the Vaad.

I understand feeling a loyalty towards the Vàad. There is nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, there is no reason to slander anyone else.

Additionally, there are many different types of people living in town now. Different people have different priorities and different standards in Kashrus. For example, some Rabbis will not allow any certification on a non Jewish owned establishment, or a restaurant owned and operated by an owner who does not observe Shabbos. There are different hidurim in what can be considered bug-free, or which shechita follows different atringabcies.

Why can't there be a Hashgacha in town who caters to those people. They want to be able to know which places meet their standards. There should be nothing wrong with that. Especially after they worked with the Vaad trying to make a "Vaad Mehadrin" certification under the existing Vaad.(The Vaad will not even allow supermarkets to label which shechita the beef and poultry is. They feel if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for everybody. In reality, people have preferances, which is why in Brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood and almost everywhere else, the shechita is labeled on package.) They only opened a new Hashgacha after all negotiations failed.

In halacha, there is a concept of sticking with the hechsher of the city, and not bringing in another.  I am not sure how that plays out in areas with several kehillas, each with their own standards, but I do know that it is not so simple to bring in a new hashgacha to an area that already has one, or to rely on it once it comes in - especially if the standards are essentially the same.

[skyguy918]

Why can't there be a Hashgacha in town who caters to those people. They want to be able to know which places meet their standards. There should be nothing wrong with that. Especially after they worked with the Vaad trying to make a "Vaad Mehadrin" certification under the existing Vaad.(The Vaad will not even allow supermarkets to label which shechita the beef and poultry is. They feel if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for everybody. In reality, people have preferances, which is why in Brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood and almost everywhere else, the shechita is labeled on package.) They only opened a new Hashgacha after all negotiations failed.

It's bewildering that you somehow think this whole tumult with Mehadrin will in any way shape or form bring about higher standards. You've been vocal here about your desire for a more 'mehudar' option, and therefore dislike the Vaad. And I get that - I just don't see how you could possibly think this is what you've been looking for all this time.

[sammyp]

It's bewildering that you somehow think this whole tumult with Mehadrin will in any way shape or form bring about higher standards. You've been vocal here about your desire for a more 'mehudar' option, and therefore dislike the Vaad. And I get that - I just don't see how you could possibly think this is what you've been looking for all this time.

I am in no way saying this new Hashgacha is what I would appreciate. I am just trying to demonstrate that the Vaad has no right to tell people not to eat at these establishments just because they are certified by a competitor. There was no kashrus concern here.

[aygart]

There was no kashrus concern here.

This is VERY debatable and this comment leads me to believe that you don't deserve a seat at the debate table.
 

The new certifier kept all the same mashgichim and at that point did not even up the standards yet. When these mashgichim worked for the Vaad, they were fine. But now that they are working for Mehadrin, they became no good.

The bases for this lawsuit seems to be because the Vaad told people not to eat there for personal gain, not because the standard of kashrus was any lower. This is clear and provable.

[S209]

This is VERY debatable and this comment leads me to believe that you don't deserve a seat at the debate table.

Careful you might be labeled a CNN watcher

[sammyp]

In halacha, there is a concept of sticking with the hechsher of the city, and not bringing in another.  I am not sure how that plays out in areas with several kehillas, each with their own standards, but I do know that it is not so simple to bring in a new hashgacha to an area that already has one, or to rely on it once it comes in - especially if the standards are essentially the same.

There is no basis in Halacha at all to not allow a second hashgacha in town. In fact, there are already places with other hashgachos already. But their standards are lower and the Vadd did not view them as a threat.

It would be more of a halachic issue to open a shul in the territory of another shul. And that nobody cares about!! The same we we need different schools and different schools with different hashkofos, we can also have different Vaad's and their hashgochos. There is no basis in Halacha prohibiting that.

The current Vaad is actually a merger of two different Vaadim years ago. The same way there was nothing wrong then when the Vaad originally opened up, certainly now as the area has grown we can have multiple hashgochos.

Everyone would understand that if Belz would open a kehila nearby, they would have their own hashgocho with their own standards. Most people here would not even want them to utilize the current Vaad by upgrading their standard to a Chsideshe hashgacha. In our circles it's the same way. There are different standards and different hashkafos.

I am not saying I agree with the new Mehadrin's standards. But the Vaad has no halachic basis to tell people not to patronize these establishments.

[sammyp]

This is VERY debatable and this comment leads me to believe that you don't deserve a seat at the debate table.

So please explain: What standard was lowered when these establishments switched to Mehadrin? I was told there was no lowering of standards. If you have specifics, please provide them. I would seriously like to know what they are.

[sammyp]

u speak of slander, please if its clear and provable can u provide a resource? as i understand it the rabbis of the community/Vaad get $0 from the vaad.

I read the entire lawsuit. I also read all the letters the Vaad put out over the past year or so.

[ushdadude]

I read the entire lawsuit. I also read all the letters the Vaad supposedly put out over the past year or so.

FTFY
Did you read the counter letters too?

[yzj]

So please explain: What standard was lowered when these establishments switched to Mehadrin? I was told there was no lowering of standards. If you have specifics, please provide them. I would seriously like to know what they are.

When a restaurant that switched complains about the onerous bug checking require that it faced under the Vaad before the switch that doesn’t inspire confidence in standards being maintained.

[sammyp]

FTFY
Did you read the counter letters too?

Yes. Plus the private correspondence the Vaad sent out to their member Rabbis

[aygart]

So please explain: What standard was lowered when these establishments switched to Mehadrin? I was told there was no lowering of standards. If you have specifics, please provide them. I would seriously like to know what they are.

I have no idea, but there could have been and there being the same mashgiach would make no difference about that. That you even bring that up takes away all credibility you may have had about whether or not the standards are similar.

[sammyp]

When a restaurant that switched complains about the onerous bug checking require that it faced under the Vaad before the switch that doesn’t inspire confidence in standards being maintained.

They complained about the extra fees charged which were on top of what they are already paying. Not the checking itself.

The Vaad themselves have lots to learn about bug checking. I cannot go into details, but to give a few examples, when they were caught a few years ago Pesach with infested broccoli, and only then decided to "upgrade" their policy due to "new" heavy infestation which was there the entire time even before they got caught (by Slew). More recently selling the colored Kale as pre-checked when it was heavily infested. Lucky us, we had the only Vaad in the tristate area who was allowing it at the time.

[sammyp]

I have no idea, but there could have been and there being the same mashgiach would make no difference about that. That you even bring that up takes away all credibility you may have had about whether or not the standards are similar.

Explain what I said to l have my credibility taken away. First of all, Mehadrin is run by two very knowledgeable Talmidei Chachomim. We can assume they know what they are doing. I also spoke to other Rabonim, some of who are even officially Vaad members who checked out this new hashgocho and told me it was a step up.

Regardless, the lawsuit has good standing and the burden of proof is on the Vaad to prove they had reason to slander.

[aygart]

Explain what I said to l have my credibility taken away.

that you felt there being the same mashgiach was something that actually shows something is a great illustration of ignorance.

Regardless, the lawsuit has good standing and the burden of proof is on the Vaad to prove they had reason to slander.

This show ignorance of law too. lol.

[ushdadude]

Yes. Plus the private correspondence the Vaad sent out to their member Rabbis

and what did you think of all the contradictions?

[ushdadude]

When a restaurant that switched complains about the onerous bug checking require that it faced under the Vaad before the switch that doesn’t inspire confidence in standards being maintained.

to be fair, that restaurant didn't switch to the new guys