5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread

[EliJelly]

@sammyp Do you have a source that for shabbos one should more machmir on pas palter like on Aseres Ymei Tshuva? The Tor actually brings a daiah from the Geonim that pas palter should only be permitted for shabbos because of Oneg Shabbos.

Anyway, the bigger issue here I believe would be Bishul akum for the soft cheeses and fillings. Isn't the 5 Towns Costco bakery kosher certfied?

[WAM]

Maybe it just tastes better you fomenter of Sinas chinam or going on some crusade of who knows what. Perhaps mea shearim would be a better for you

I'm not sure how 100 Gates got involved in this convo. But if it was an indirect insult at M"Sh, it doesn't exactly belong after the previous sentence. Perhaps that's not what you meant. If that's the case, maybe fix up your post a bit.

@sammyp Do you have a source that for shabbos one should more machmir on pas palter like on Aseres Ymei Tshuva? The Tor actually brings a daiah from the Geonim that pas palter should only be permitted for shabbos because of Oneg Shabbos.

Anyway, the bigger issue here I believe would be Bishul akum for the soft cheeses and fillings. Isn't the 5 Towns Costco bakery kosher certfied?

I still think the bigger issue is l"h.
I find it ironic when a person complains that others are not being the biggest tzaddikim - and in the same sentence, defame a group of Jews. Chalav stam and pas palter is not what brought us into galus, it was l"h.

It's not like I'm going to pretend that I'm perfect, because I'm not. But the irony here is just too much for me to be quiet.

[sammyp]

@sammyp Do you have a source that for shabbos one should more machmir on pas palter like on Aseres Ymei Tshuva? The Tor actually brings a daiah from the Geonim that pas palter should only be permitted for shabbos because of Oneg Shabbos.

Anyway, the bigger issue here I believe would be Bishul akum for the soft cheeses and fillings. Isn't the 5 Towns Costco bakery kosher certfied?

SEE Mishnah Berurah (242:6)

Bishul Akum has to be taken care of, or else it would not be kosher. (Although there are some leniencies some certifiers rely on for bishul akum which are not universally accepted. Reb Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt"l in Halichos Shlomo frowns upon certain leniencies used in the US. He says they have no basis in Gemara or Halacha. But he is referring to a specific leniencies that only very few certifiers rely on.)

[sammyp]

I'm not sure how 100 Gates got involved in this convo. But if it was an indirect insult at M"Sh, it doesn't exactly belong after the previous sentence. Perhaps that's not what you meant. If that's the case, maybe fix up your post a bit.
I still think the bigger issue is l"h.
I find it ironic when a person complains that others are not being the biggest tzaddikim - and in the same sentence, defame a group of Jews. Chalav stam and pas palter is not what brought us into galus, it was l"h.

It's not like I'm going to pretend that I'm perfect, because I'm not. But the irony here is just too much for me to be quiet.

I have no idea what Loshon Hara you are referring to.

My original comment was in response to a poster who seemed proud that our local Costco sold more Cheese cakes than any other Costco. (Maybe that was Loshon Harah)

My response was that is not something to be proud of.

There is no Loshon Hara in my comment. I was not the one who publicized the story. I agree that it seems like I touched a raw nerve. That was not my intention. Hopefully I brought awareness to a halacha some were not aware of.

When I was growing up, the Stela Dora "Streimel Cookie" was a popular Shabbos party nosh. When I got older I realized it is better not to eat them on Shabbos. B"H we are more educated in halacha now then we were back then. There are also a lot more options in the kosher pas Yisroel food industry now than there was back then. We didn't have so many option in the Pas Yisroel market. The hidur of only eating Pas Yisroel might not apply when there were so few options and it would take away from Oneg Shabbos. (Although the MB seems to indicate to be strict unless there is no Pas Yisroel for the Chalah of the seuda.) Nowadays, there is so many options in the Pas Yisroel market, after learning and studying this halacha, it is hard to understand why someone would choose not not adhere to the Mishna Berura's (quoting the earlier poskim) advice to stick to Pas Yisroel on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

[ethana]

I misspoke. I apologize for bringing mea shearim into this. My original point stands though. This guy just comes on here to throw shade at people. Seems like a real life of the party.

[ethana]

And the original poster didn’t seem to be proud. He or she was merely trying to bring some humor which it seems @sammyp may have missed. The Costco bakery manager  was proud of it…

[WAM]

I have no idea what Loshon Hara you are referring to.

My original comment was in response to a poster who seemed proud that our local Costco sold more Cheese cakes than any other Costco. (Maybe that was Loshon Harah)

My response was that is not something to be proud of.

There is no Loshon Hara in my comment. I was not the one who publicized the story. I agree that it seems like I touched a raw nerve. That was not my intention. Hopefully I brought awareness to a halacha some were not aware of.

When I was growing up, the Stela Dora "Streimel Cookie" was a popular Shabbos party nosh. When I got older I realized it is better not to eat them on Shabbos. B"H we are more educated in halacha now then we were back then. There are also a lot more options in the kosher pas Yisroel food industry now than there was back then. We didn't have so many option in the Pas Yisroel market. The hidur of only eating Pas Yisroel might not apply when there were so few options and it would take away from Oneg Shabbos. (Although the MB seems to indicate to be strict unless there is no Pas Yisroel for the Chalah of the seuda.) Nowadays, there is so many options in the Pas Yisroel market, after learning and studying this halacha, it is hard to understand why someone would choose not not adhere to the Mishna Berura's (quoting the earlier poskim) advice to stick to Pas Yisroel on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

I think the C"C would prefer that you not quote his work the M"B while ignoring the book he was named after.

I'm sure you know the reason why the Five Towns Costco was #1.

Why did they sell so many more here than in any other frum neighborhood?

The answer is simple: In other neighborhoods, most people try to eat only Cholov Yisroel, at least on Yom Tov. In addition, halacha very strongly suggests to only eat Pas Yisroel on Shabbos and Yom Tov. (Just like we are supposed to be careful during the Aseres Yemei Teshuva)

It's nothing to be proud of that only our Costco sold so many Pas Palter Cholov Stam cheese cakes. Especially when most of us can afford the Cholov Yisroel ones.

The l"h was in multiple places. Sentence # 3 and the last sentence.
Sentence #1 & #2 is only l"h because of the negative connotations from the other 2.

Sentence # 3 implies other neighborhoods are good because of a reason and the 5T are not good for that same reason. Since that is a negative comment against the 5T, it is l"h.

The last sentence is a judgment that since most people in the 5T can afford ch"y, the large amount of cheesecakes sold were purchased by those individuals.

Besides, if you didn't obtain a list of who purchased the cheesecakes, even if you would have been right to put down an entire community, how would you know that what you're saying is true? (This is rhetorical.)
Maybe somebody bought 500 cakes and shipped to Jews around the country that easy non-kosher on a daily basis.

Saying that ppl are not good because of ch"y and pas palter while speaking l"h where there is clearly no toeles is like warning ppl not to play with fire while juggling nuclear bombs. It makes no sense and takes the legitimacy out of all of your halachic posts.

It's not that there is just a flaw in your argument. The entire concept of quoting halacha while spewing l"h is an incredible oxymoron.

In addition, the issue that you are degrading an entire community over is relatively minor and only bein adam lamkom. L"h is not minor in any way and bein adam lachaveioro.

You're in the deep water without floaties and you don't know how to swim. You should probably get out.

[rbs-g1.5]

I think the C"C would prefer that you not quote his work the M"B while ignoring the book he was named after.
The l"h was in multiple places. Sentence # 3 and the last sentence.
Sentence #1 & #2 is only l"h because of the negative connotations from the other 2.

Sentence # 3 implies other neighborhoods are good because of a reason and the 5T are not good for that same reason. Since that is a negative comment against the 5T, it is l"h.

The last sentence is a judgment that since most people in the 5T can afford ch"y, the large amount of cheesecakes sold were purchased by those individuals.

Besides, if you didn't obtain a list of who purchased the cheesecakes, even if you would have been right to put down an entire community, how would you know that what you're saying is true? (This is rhetorical.)
Maybe somebody bought 500 cakes and shipped to Jews around the country that easy non-kosher on a daily basis.

Saying that ppl are not good because of ch"y and pas palter while speaking l"h where there is clearly no toeles is like warning ppl not to play with fire while juggling nuclear bombs. It makes no sense and takes the legitimacy out of all of your halachic posts.

It's not that there is just a flaw in your argument. The entire concept of quoting halacha while spewing l"h is an incredible oxymoron.

In addition, the issue that you are degrading an entire community over is relatively minor and only bein adam lamkom. L"h is not minor in any way and bein adam lachaveioro.

You're in the deep water without floaties and you don't know how to swim. You should probably get out.

please explain about who loshon hara was said???,being that the guy himself lives there he obviously doesn't mean everyone. He brings up a point that in his mind is lacking in many people in the neighborhood. even if he would have said there is a large percentage of murderers in a neighborhood i dont see where an issur was done.at most its loshon horo abut a place.as far as i know there is no such issur ( unless in eretz yisroel where i believe there is an issur of dibas haaretz) .if he would have said far rockaway 5t people are a bunch of cholov stam eating murderers you have a point .but saying there are plenty of such people in the neighborhood ,where is the issur?(especially since he is probably trying to prove his point about his general crusade that he claims is to prove the need for a second hechsher for the "frummer " crowd in the neighborhhod -as opposed to the costco cheesecake buyers who dont demand the same level of kashrus)

[sammyp]

please explain about who loshon hara was said???,being that the guy himself lives there he obviously doesn't mean everyone. He brings up a point that in his mind is lacking in many people in the neighborhood. even if he would have said there is a large percentage of murderers in a neighborhood i dont see where an issur was done.at most its loshon horo abut a place.as far as i know there is no such issur ( unless in eretz yisroel where i believe there is an issur of dibas haaretz) .if he would have said far rockaway 5t people are a bunch of cholov stam eating murderers you have a point .but saying there are plenty of such people in the neighborhood ,where is the issur?(especially since he is probably trying to prove his point about his general crusade that he claims is to prove the need for a second hechsher for the "frummer " crowd in the neighborhhod -as opposed to the costco cheesecake buyers who dont demand the same level of kashrus)

Thank You!

Nice to see somebody else who understands.

As to your point, what would happen if, l'maan hashalom, in order to keep one standard, all Rabbis would anounce nobody may eat cheesecakes from Costco. And for the sake of until, no stores can sell Cohabani Yogurts. No more OUD cookies or snacks. No more Miller cheese products or Pas Palter breads can be sold in stores. No more Roll Gold pretzels sold in kosher supermarkets. No more OUD cereals. etc

All of this l'maan hashalom to keep one standard for everyone!

That would make a complete uproar in town.

But the opposite way is demanded and expected to be tolerated.

Enjoy your cheesecakes!!

[justaregularguy]

all other destination threads: hey wheres the best bakery on main street?

5 towns thread: you're a rasha! no you're a rasha!

[Sammy82]

Is there a point and time when somebody could get banned from the forums? I love dialog but at some point, when ever single conversation turns into an argument, bashing, putting members down, talking bad about rabbonim,etc when do the moderators say enough? Am I the only one here with this issue? Could we start another 5towns thread specifically without such material?
I guess if it doesn't happen soon, I could just ignore the this specific thread. It would be a shame though because at times there are some relevant info, especially as a resident in this community but at some point, enough is enough.

[sammyp]

Is there a point and time when somebody could get banned from the forums? I love dialog but at some point, when ever single conversation turns into an argument, bashing, putting members down, talking bad about rabbonim,etc when do the moderators say enough? Am I the only one here with this issue? Could we start another 5towns thread specifically without such material?
I guess if it doesn't happen soon, I could just ignore the this specific thread. It would be a shame though because at times there are some relevant info, especially as a resident in this community but at some point, enough is enough.

The ones who turn this thread into what you are referring to are the same one or two vocal people who turn every issue into an attack on their Rabonim.

If they would stop knit picking and reading into every comment as an attack on their lives and their Rabonim, everything would be more civil. People would comment and move on.

These one or two people blow everything up and read into comments in a way they were never intended. It is them to blame. They attack anybody who doesn't fit into their own life style and agenda.

[yesitsme]

Just curious 5 towns is an out of town community or in town?

[ushdadude]

Is there a point and time when somebody could get banned from the forums? I love dialog but at some point, when ever single conversation turns into an argument, bashing, putting members down, talking bad about rabbonim,etc when do the moderators say enough? Am I the only one here with this issue? Could we start another 5towns thread specifically without such material?
I guess if it doesn't happen soon, I could just ignore the this specific thread. It would be a shame though because at times there are some relevant info, especially as a resident in this community but at some point, enough is enough.

Don't get mad, feel bad.

[ushdadude]

Just curious 5 towns is an out of town community or in town?

It used to be more out of town until all the Brooklyn people moved in.

[rbs-g1.5]

Thank You!

Nice to see somebody else who understands.

As to your point, what would happen if, l'maan hashalom, in order to keep one standard, all Rabbis would anounce nobody may eat cheesecakes from Costco. And for the sake of until, no stores can sell Cohabani Yogurts. No more OUD cookies or snacks. No more Miller cheese products or Pas Palter breads can be sold in stores. No more Roll Gold pretzels sold in kosher supermarkets. No more OUD cereals. etc

All of this l'maan hashalom to keep one standard for everyone!

That would make a complete uproar in town.

But the opposite way is demanded and expected to be tolerated.

Enjoy your cheesecakes!!

just for the record i never said i understand ,just that i dont see loshon hara in your comment. (and i am allergic to people who always see loshon hara and bein adam lachaveiro problems whenever somebody mentions yiddishkeit.)
my personal opinion according to the limited facts that i know is that there is a general consensus of rabbonim about how to do things in the neighborhood.  that way of doing things might not work for you ,it doesn't work for me either, thats why i dont live there. i grew up there and when i visit i never eat from the vaad establishments. thats my perogative i can do what what i want .but if  the decision of the local rabbonim is  that this is whats right for the greater good of the community you have 2 choices ,1- shut up 2- get out .
 I chose to get out.

[WAM]

He brings up a point that in his mind is lacking in many people in the neighborhood. even if he would have said there is a large percentage of murderers in a neighborhood i dont see where an issur was done.at most its loshon horo abut a place.as far as i know there is no such issur ( unless in eretz yisroel where i believe there is an issur of dibas haaretz)

Yes, talking bad about people living in a specific city is what I'm referring to. In ח"ח כלל י' סעיף י"ב, he calls an עוון פלילי. (See attached screenshot)
What the specific intent of the post was is not so relevant, if it was written in a way that can easily be construed as an attack an entire community. The fact that he also lives the didn't make a difference (כלל ז סע' ו)

Also see כלל ד' סעיף ב - l"h regarding  mitzvos that many do not fulfill.

דיבת הארץ refers specifically to the land of א"י, (even if) not referring to the people living in it. For an example, see the story of the meraglim.

Even if this post was לתועלת, he would still need to avoid disparaging the community if the intended תועלות could be brought about in another way without l"h. (כלל י סע' ב)

[sammyp]

just for the record i never said i understand ,just that i dont see loshon hara in your comment. (and i am allergic to people who always see loshon hara and bein adam lachaveiro problems whenever somebody mentions yiddishkeit.)
my personal opinion according to the limited facts that i know is that there is a general consensus of rabbonim about how to do things in the neighborhood.  that way of doing things might not work for you ,it doesn't work for me either, thats why i dont live there. i grew up there and when i visit i never eat from the vaad establishments. thats my perogative i can do what what i want .but if  the decision of the local rabbonim is  that this is whats right for the greater good of the community you have 2 choices ,1- shut up 2- get out .
 I chose to get out.

Thanks for clarifying.

The facts you have are not accurate though. The Five Towns is not what it used to be, as noted in other posts. Now there are now many Rabonim with many followers across the spectrum. Years ago, Siach Yitzchok was a tiny cheder, now it's a quite large Cheder. Same for BBY. There is also a quite large group who sends their children to Brooklyn for school, especially High School.

There is no "consensus amongst the Rabonim", as you indicated. There is a consensus amongst a group of Rabonim, whose followers happen to be more active and vocal on social media.

However, there is quite a large group who follow other local Rabonim who are of great stature too. They don't use social media, and these Rabbis, Roshei Kollel, and Roshei Yeshiva keep there opinions with their followers.

Just because they don't publicize them, does not mean they don't count.

Just as I understand the Vaad Rabonim's followers could and should follow their Rabonim, they need to understand those on the "right" with different hashkofos need to, and should be able to follow theirs without being bullied. When they have their own "lists", or want to make their own Vaadim, let them!

A prominent Rosh HaYeshiva in town told me he told his talmidim not to eat by a certain establishment for whatever reason. Word got out. He got a call from another Rabbi in town who yelled at him, threatened him, and told him he must retract.

Let each group follow their Rabbis with their standards. We are a diverse crowd and do not need to be, or want to be the same. We all serve Hashem in our own unique way.

[JMHO]

@sammyp
You don't seem happy in the Five Towns, and many things there bother you. Is there a community that you'd be happier in?

[sammyp]

@sammyp
You don't seem happy in the Five Towns, and many things there bother you. Is there a community that you'd be happier in?

I am very happy where I am.

You actually don't seem happy that there are people that live in the Five Towns who are more right than you are. You don't want to tolerate them, or let them have their own Vaadim or boards.

I let you live the way you want. I'm fine with that. I only daven in shuls where I am comfortable. I only eat whee I am comfortable. I probably never met or will ever meet you.

You just have to be as accepting to the right, as the right is to the left. We let you live your standards. Let us live ours.

Now go to your daf shiur and enjoy the rest of your day!