FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[Drago]

For one thing, it seems they were pretty careful about not leaving evidence. (though apparently they weren't all that careful in who they told that they were careful not to leave evidence...)

I understand, but police are aware that people can be hurt w/o evidence being left.

Perhaps they were afraid of communal revenge?

Isn't it a sad state of affairs when s/o will be more ostracized for this than for causing an agunah?


I haven't read the court docs, so maybe s/o can fill me in. How did the FBI get wind of this?

[HP58]

I haven't read the court docs, so maybe s/o can fill me in. How did the FBI get wind of this?

Haven't either, but wouldn't they be hiding that person's identity for his protection?

[Drago]

Haven't either, but wouldn't they be hiding that person's identity for his protection?

So was it a husband who turned them in, word on the street, or s/t else?

[Drago]

Is Potash the same guy who works at Culinary Depot?
http://fesmag.com/departments/dsr-of-the-month/10454-dsr-of-the-month,-january-2013-ariel-potash,-sales-executive,-culinary-depot,-monsey,-n-y

And I've got another question, and please excuse my ignorance of halacha.
If the beis din is being paid (which is how the documents described it), isn't that considered a form of bribery? Or are the halachos of get different, so that a beis din can be paid off by a party, and doesn't have to retain objectivity?

[Myccrabbi]

Is Potash the same guy who works at Culinary Depot?
http://fesmag.com/departments/dsr-of-the-month/10454-dsr-of-the-month,-january-2013-ariel-potash,-sales-executive,-culinary-depot,-monsey,-n-y

And I've got another question, and please excuse my ignorance of halacha.
If the beis din is being paid (which is how the documents described it), isn't that considered a form of bribery? Or are the halachos of get different, so that a beis din can be paid off by a party, and doesn't have to retain objectivity?

bribery would mean to tip the scale in ur favor this however is not the case

[SuperFlyer]

But, there are an equal amount of cases where the woman is the one behaving like an @#$%^&. ME indiscriminately sided with the woman. Having a goon like this out of business is good.

Partially similar story.

The dayan (not ME) was asked: Why do you side with the woman when you know she isn't in her right?

The dayans response: Voos ken ich teen... A yiddenne vint. (=what can I do, a jewess is crying). He even brought a proof of the gemoro to prove his point.

This is a dayan that is really respected...

[Drago]

bribery would mean to tip the scale in ur favor this however is not the case

But isn't the money in order to convene the beis din, so they can issue the seiruv (or s/t of that nature)? That's not a regular beis din function that would disallow bribery?

[SuperFlyer]

But isn't the money in order to convene the beis din, so they can issue the seiruv (or s/t of that nature)? That's not a regular beis din function that would disallow bribery?

If th money is going straight to the shloochay beis din, there is no problem.

[rots5]

No dragon that's his uncle.

Wow I just caught up.  @clown I'm sorry to hear a personal story that you went thru.  But I do commend you a lot for the insight and the knowledge that you have brought to the table and for not being afraid to say that the money was not the object. 

I know similar story where the wife brainwashed the kids against the father so he withheld.  The situation definitely can go both ways. But I think we can all agree that when the only thing the husband is demanding is 3mm$ or otherwise he's not giving a get, that he is a psycho and this was needed.
 

[hocker]

bribery would mean to tip the scale in ur favor this however is not the case

Nevertheless it's assur, dayanim get paid for Schar Beteilah.

[Drago]

Nevertheless it's assur, dayanim get paid for Schar Beteilah.

So it's okay to request the money, or it's not okay?
Also, how is schar betaila calculated?

[SuperFlyer]

Also, how is schar betaila calculated?

Doesnt really matter, both sides pay equally, or better yet, they pay the organisation that employs the dayanim who are on a fixed wage.

[hocker]

So it's okay to request the money, or it's not okay?
Also, how is schar betaila calculated?

If it's taken as payment for hearing the case it's Assur, even if it isn't given with the intention to curry favor for one side and the Dayan would have a status of Dinov Bateilin.

Your last question is a tricky question, the simple way is to calculate what profession the Dayan has and figure the average salary; but I'm sure there are other ways to calculate it.

Keep in mind that Beis Din has overhead costs too (i.em electric, phones, maintenance etc).

[Drago]

Doesnt really matter, both sides pay equally, or better yet, they pay the organisation that employs the dayanim who are on a fixed wage.

But in this case, only 1 side is paying (well, the other side is paying, but not with cash ). So how can it be a valid sechar betaila?

If it's taken as payment for hearing the case it's Assur, even if it isn't given with the intention to curry favor for one side and the Dayan would have a status of Dinov Bateilin.

Your last question is a tricky question, the simple way is to calculate what profession the Dayan has and figure the average salary; but I'm sure there are other ways to calculate it.

Keep in mind that Beis Din has overhead costs too (i.em electric, phones, maintenance etc).

So in this case, the money to the bais din would have been assur?
And if so, are any rulings that come out of a 'bribed' beis din also inadmissible?

[SuperFlyer]

But in this case, only 1 side is paying (well, the other side is paying, but not with cash ). So how can it be a valid sechar betaila?

if it doesnt end in his pocket.

[Drago]

if it doesnt end in his pocket.

But in this case, it seems like 10k was for the beis din from the court document, (based on what ME said to them).

[Clown]

If the beis din is being paid (which is how the documents described it), isn't that considered a form of bribery? Or are the halachos of get different, so that a beis din can be paid off by a party, and doesn't have to retain objectivity?

There was another huge problem here. The "husband" never showed up to this kangaroo Bais Din. They clearly did not have halachic jurisdiction over a South African resident if he never agreed to follow their psak.

According to most poskim, a lot of these gitten did not have any halachic validity. It may have been an exercise in assuaging a guilty conciseness. That's about it - not halachicly valid. However, ME and the "sympathetic rabbis" (MW's words to the FBI agents) did mean good. The felt they were righting wrongs. And some times, they did.

[hocker]

So in this case, the money to the bais din would have been assur?
And if so, are any rulings that come out of a 'bribed' beis din also inadmissible?

I don't think $10k minus expenses/3 is overpriced in the field, but I'm sure there's people who have been to Din Torahs who can answer that question better than me.

[Clown]

@clown I'm sorry to hear a personal story that you went thru.  But I do commend you a lot for the insight and the knowledge that you have brought to the table and for not being afraid to say that the money was not the object.

Thank you.

But I think we can all agree that when the only thing the husband is demanding is 3mm$ or otherwise he's not giving a get, that he is a psycho and this was needed.

True. If all he wants is money (not a return on money that was embezzled from him), he can deserve this.

[Drago]

I don't think $10k minus expenses/3 is overpriced in the field, but I'm sure there's people who have been to Din Torahs who can answer that question better than me.

But again, doesn't it have to be paid by both sides so that there is no possible bribery chashash? You're more aware than I am of all the chumras which exist in this arena...