FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[churnbabychurn]

and whose case led to similar charges against other rabbis, pleaded guilty in federal court Tuesday, officials said.

Does not necessarily mean that he was moser.

[skyguy918]

Does not necessarily mean that he was moser.

+1
And even if he did rat on them, it doesn't automatically mean he's halachically considered a מוסר. I just heard a shiur that touched on this topic, and there's all sorts of shitos regarding what is and isn't considered אונס, where one wouldn't have a דין מוסר. Obviously someone in this position should ask a major posek what to do, someone with big shoulders. I have no idea if this person did that or not, but we shouldn't jump to assume that he's a מוסר.

[sky121]

100% Wrong. sorry to disagree, but its a fellow jew who outed them. Do you know what is said aboout a moiser in klall yisroel?! apparently it must be up there in the bad sins one can do.

What's wrong about what I said?
He may or not be considered a moiser.  I'm not sure about that. I think we can all agree that rattling people out when you too knew and were part of something is a pretty low class move.  All I'm saying is that they all knew what could happen. If it wasn't this guy it would have been something/someone else.

[PlatinumGuy]

100% Wrong. sorry to disagree, but its a fellow jew who outed them. Do you know what is said aboout a moiser in klall yisroel?! apparently it must be up there in the bad sins one can do.

The halachic term of Moiser is only when there's a capital punishment, and even that possibly only when there's a lack of due process.

[Moshe123]

The halachic term of Moiser is only when there's a capital punishment, and even that possibly only when there's a lack of due process.

המוסר ממון חבירו

[skyguy918]

The halachic term of Moiser is only when there's a capital punishment, and even that possibly only when there's a lack of due process.

-1000

[Jkhein]

The halachic term of Moiser is only when there's a capital punishment, and even that possibly only when there's a lack of due process.

-10000000000
עיין חו״מ סי׳ שפ״ח סעיף י׳ מותר להרוג המסור בכל מקום.... אפי׳ קודם שימסור אלא כשאמר הריני מוסר פלוני בגופו או בממונו
אפי׳ ממון קל התיר עצמו למיתה

[dovy2]

The halachic term of Moiser is only when there's a capital punishment, and even that possibly only when there's a lack of due process.

That's just so wrong. Am haratzus mammesh

[hocker]

Plea deal probably now complete, the informant  pleads guilty
http://www.justice.gov/usao/nj/Press/files/Wax,%20David%20Plea%20PR.html

Seems he used some of these guys and once he was caught gave info that led to the Epstein Wolmark sting

http://www.app.com/article/20140506/NJNEWS14/305060029/Lakewood-rabbi-admits-plot-kidnap-Orthodox-Jewish-man-force-religious-divorce

I dont want to go to hell but THAT guy is a very bad person. this guy is a 100% moiser!! They fbi came to him and he as moiser pleaded with them to let him off if he gets even bigger fish!

That doesn't take away from the guilt of the one who was actually Mosser.

100% Wrong. sorry to disagree, but its a fellow jew who outed them. Do you know what is said aboout a moiser in klall yisroel?! apparently it must be up there in the bad sins one can do.

A muser is a muser is a muser.
Nothing else matters in Jewish law.

Don't understand how people can be Choished B'ksheim someone with zero evidence, based purely on assumptions. And yes you guys will go to hell for this.

I'm not saying he didn't Moiser but as of now no one has any definite or even indefinite knowledge, you guys are just calling someone  out purely on speculation.

[Aaaron]

Don't understand how people can be Choished B'ksheim someone with zero evidence, based purely on assumptions. And yes you guys will go to hell for this.

I'm not saying he didn't Moiser but as of now no one has any definite or even indefinite knowledge, you guys are just calling someone  out purely on speculation.

I just think it's funny how some people are so quick to judge when they'd probably do the same exact thing in his situation.

[dans fan]

Don't understand how people can be Choished B'ksheim someone with zero evidence, based purely on assumptions. And yes you guys will go to hell for this.

I'm not saying he didn't Moiser but as of now no one has any definite or even indefinite knowledge, you guys are just calling someone  out purely on speculation.

its pretty ironic that you are being choshed bekshairim . did you read the peice, "During his plea Tuesday before U.S. District Judge Freda L. Wolfson, David Wax implicated Mendel Epstein, a Brooklyn rabbi who has a home in Lakewood, along with several other men who were charged last fall in a similar conspiracy."
thats pretty definite to me . the guys you accused are right here you can ask them mechila

[dans fan]

I just think it's funny how some people are so quick to judge when they'd probably do the same exact thing in his situation.

speak for yourself. i and many others are nothing like you

[Saver2000]

speak for yourself. i and many others are nothing like you

Thats not the point.  You can't judge someone until you're in thier situation.

You can guarantee  that if you and a heavy prison sentence awaiting you,  you wouldn't snitch on someone?

[sky121]

Thats not the point.  You can't judge someone until you're in thier situation.

You can guarantee  that if you and a heavy prison sentence awaiting you,  you wouldn't snitch on someone?

Just because something could be emotionally understandable doesn't mean it's right or the nice thing to do.

Like I said if a bunch of people are all doing something willingly and know its wrong it's pretty low to go rat the others out when you too were apart of it and ok with it.

[Saver2000]

Just because something could be emotionally understandable doesn't mean it's right or the nice thing to do.

Like I said if a bunch of people are all doing something willingly and know its wrong it's pretty low to go rat the others out when you too were apart of it and ok with it.

What does that have anything to do with what I said?

[thejerseyguy]

Is it all right for higher ups to let a lower guy take the fall?
(I don't know details of this situation more a theoretical question)

[sky121]

What does that have anything to do with what I said?

(Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying. )

Just that obviously we don't know what happened 100% and yes we can't judge. I CAN understand how someone would rat someone out in that situation. But it doesn't mean it's right or that I don't think it's a low move. Even if it is "understandable." And I'm talking more in theory than specifically about this guy because we don't really know what the exact story was.

[dans fan]

Thats not the point.  You can't judge someone until you're in thier situation.

You can guarantee  that if you and a heavy prison sentence awaiting you,  you wouldn't snitch on someone?

whats not the point? and who here is judging ?  aaaron openly accused many ppl of massering without any basis to his claim. he would do that , not mehe cant understand that someone can be better than him, he see's his faults in everyone

[Saver2000]

#koifer?!

[hocker]

its pretty ironic that you are being choshed bekshairim . did you read the peice, "During his plea Tuesday before U.S. District Judge Freda L. Wolfson, David Wax implicated Mendel Epstein, a Brooklyn rabbi who has a home in Lakewood, along with several other men who were charged last fall in a similar conspiracy."
thats pretty definite to me . the guys you accused are right here you can ask them mechila

honestly I missed that, but I doubt that constitutes Mesirah since it most likely can not be admitted as evidence in the Epstein case.