Author Topic: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested  (Read 169561 times)

Offline Aaaron

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #720 on: May 11, 2014, 09:00:13 PM »
whats not the point? and who here is judging ?  aaaron openly accused many ppl of massering without any basis to his claim. he would do that , not mehe cant understand that someone can be better than him, he see's his faults in everyone

You must really have a crush on me or something to always attempt to lambaste my posts.  First, where did I accuse "many ppl of massering?"  Secondly, my only point was not to judge him, as you've presumably never been in his shoes or a similar situation.

Lastly, I have no clue what you're trying to say in the rest of your post.

Offline Aaaron

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #721 on: May 11, 2014, 09:01:17 PM »
speak for yourself. i and many others are nothing like you

Oh, and I was speaking for myself.  ::)

Online skyguy918

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #722 on: May 11, 2014, 09:32:53 PM »
honestly I missed that, but I doubt that constitutes Mesirah since it most likely can not be admitted as evidence in the Epstein case.
Why would that matter in the halachic definition of mesirah? I honestly don't know whether the psak would be that his actions constituted mesirah or not, but I can't seem why you'd need his plea/testimony to be used as evidence in court to qualify as mesirah.

Offline ydbe

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #723 on: May 11, 2014, 09:34:00 PM »
I'm sure glad you guys aren't the True Judge! You swallowed everything put out by the media without so much as a second thought as to whether it was true. If the court said it, it must be true, right?!
You should know better by now, having seen so many cover-ups and baloney stories.
I'm with the poster above; we know nothing about the truth here. The famous adage is especially apropos here-
Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see.

What I want to know is why you are giving the real Moser in the case a free pass- the recalcitrant husband who was forced to give a get and called the cops. If he wouldn't have snitched, we wouldn't be in this matzav. Don't defend the bum please- he was told to give the get in Israel and fled the country illegally so as to avoid prison. How he got into America is anybody's guess... If he gave the get as Beis Din paskened, he wouldn't have had to go through this...

Offline Ergel

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #724 on: May 11, 2014, 09:42:25 PM »
I'm sure the fact that all these gittin were shelo kahilchisa plays some role in the discussion
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #725 on: May 11, 2014, 09:53:04 PM »
I'm sure the fact that all these gittin were shelo kahilchisa plays some role in the discussion

Only if the husband really wanted to stay married.

(I'm sure this was discussed at length upthread, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents...)

Offline Moshe123

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #726 on: May 15, 2014, 06:41:12 PM »
TWO MORE ALLEGED KIDNAPPERS ARRESTED, CHARGED IN PLOT TO COERCE RELUCTANT HUSBAND TO GRANT JEWISH DIVORCE TRENTON, N.J. B Special agents of the FBI arrested two men at their Lakewood, N.J., homes this morning for allegedly kidnapping a reluctant Jewish husband in order to coerce him through violence to grant his wife a religious divorce – referred to as a “get” – U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced. David Aryeh Epstein, 39, and Chaim Baruch Rubin, 32, are charged by criminal complaint with kidnapping. Both defendants appeared in Trenton federal court this afternoon before U.S. Magistrate Judge Douglas E. Arpert. They each were released on $500,000 bail with home detention and electronic monitoring.  According to the complaint unsealed today: In November 2009, Rubin called the victim concerning a sales job opportunity at “ShredZone” in Lakewood, and the victim, who had been living in Brooklyn, N.Y., moved to a temporary residence in Lakewood to begin work. A few days later, Rubin asked him to stay late for a private meeting. When he walked to his car that evening, the victim was attacked by a group of men. He was bound, put in a van, beaten and shocked with a stun gun until he agreed to grant his wife a divorce.  David Epstein is the son of rabbi Mendel Epstein, 68, of  Brooklyn, who was previously charged in October 2013 with conspiracy to commit kidnapping, along with nine other individuals. Four of those charged have since pleaded guilty to extortion charges in connection with this case. If convicted, the defendants face a maximum potential penalty of life in prison and a $250,000 fine, or twice the gross gain or loss from the offens

Offline avrumy22

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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #728 on: May 15, 2014, 06:54:58 PM »
TWO MORE ALLEGED KIDNAPPERS ARRESTED

Why in the world did they stay in the US?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #729 on: May 15, 2014, 07:22:17 PM »
Why in the world did they stay in the US?
they didn't think he would be moiser?

Offline dans fan

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #730 on: May 16, 2014, 03:22:40 AM »
can someone with criminal law knowledge explain how can they arrest these guys, based on what evidence, its his word against theirs?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #731 on: May 16, 2014, 04:47:30 AM »
they didn't think he would be moiser?
Tahts naive certainly at this point

Also they didn't seem to be so careful, there must've a way for the govt to track them once they have court warrants and all.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #732 on: May 16, 2014, 07:19:32 AM »
The kidnapping happened a very long time ago. At the time the victim was interviewed extensively by police and he didn't say anything....
All of a sudden he "recognized" his attackers..

Offline Menachem613

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #733 on: May 16, 2014, 07:32:01 AM »

can someone with criminal law knowledge explain how can they arrest these guys, based on what evidence, its his word against theirs?

Probable cause is the standard.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #734 on: May 16, 2014, 09:22:29 AM »
The kidnapping happened a very long time ago. At the time the victim was interviewed extensively by police and he didn't say anything....
All of a sudden he "recognized" his attackers..
Sorry but if you have that possibility hanging over you you leave.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline dans fan

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #735 on: May 16, 2014, 05:49:40 PM »
Probable cause is the standard.
if they deny, there is no probable cause. i think you need a little more than someones chrges to arrest. i think it would be fair to assume that the arrest was based on a witness statment (aka moiser)

Offline asd

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #736 on: May 21, 2014, 02:56:31 PM »
This latest arrest has nothing to do with wax or any previous story ,it is a new incident and from what i hear there will be new arrests in the coming days.

Offline MarkS

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #737 on: May 21, 2014, 03:04:37 PM »
This latest arrest has nothing to do with wax or any previous story ,it is a new incident and from what i hear there will be new arrests in the coming days.
Chance coincidence that it's Mendel Epstein's son?

Offline dans fan

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #738 on: May 22, 2014, 03:47:01 AM »
This latest arrest has nothing to do with wax or any previous story ,it is a new incident and from what i hear there will be new arrests in the coming days.
read the article, he testified. there is a chance that you or the person feeding you info has reason to cover up for someone. dont get me wrong i am all for the guy who ratted out, but no reason to lie about it

Offline Yitz

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Re: FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested
« Reply #739 on: June 24, 2014, 11:52:13 AM »
It seems like 1 guy was convicted for 20 years