FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[how]

mods at what point can we move all this out of the monsey news thread and into the get thread....

[Achas Veachas]

Yes, but in that case I would think it'd much more likely be a situation like Dweck, using "informants," rather than "agents"
(I guess it is possible that there are frum female special agents out there...)

Dweck was considered an "informants"? Was he mentioned that way in the court documents? Maybe such informants are considered "agents"?

[skyguy918]

Skyguy, I don't think there are too many places, even in the Rambam's times, where something like this would legal under the law of the land.

Are you suggesting that the fact that the poskim discuss it despite our being in galus (where you say it is and always has been against the law everywhere) proves that dina d'malchusa is not taken into consideration? I'm skeptical that dina d'malchusa has always been, everywhere, that such a coercion is illegal. And even if it was, that wouldn't preclude the poskim from discussing the essential halachos.

mods at what point can we move all this out of the monsey news thread and into the get thread....

No offense to good sam (who started the thread), but this wasn't exactly a well-traveled thread before this story. This halachic discussion is unlikely to be impeding any real news.

[beeweegee]

I feel like we're missing something from this story.

They claim the "husband" and "wife" were undercover FBI agents posing as orthodox jews, I don't see how they could've spoken to the rabbonim etc. for more than 2 minutes without them getting suspicious.

From my experience in the field of law enforcement, I would assume that these agents, like most undercovers, did EXTENSIVE research into the roles they had to play before going through with this. How to pronounce the right words, what knowledge they would be expected to know, etc. They can then play the role of a modern Jew who may not have much knowledge in this area anyway.
I could be wrong, but this would seem to be the logical explanation. Especially if the rabbis had no reason to be suspicious.

[elikay]

Did the Rabonim pay Maaser on the money?

IDIOT! why did you change your screen name? Chazir phees!
Why is it that you sit here on a frum site, constantly poking fun at yiddishkeit? Need I compile a list of all your idiotic comments?

[Achas Veachas]

From my experience in the field of law enforcement, I would assume that these agents, like most undercovers, did EXTENSIVE research into the roles they had to play before going through with this. How to pronounce the right words, what knowledge they would be expected to know, etc. They can then play the role of a modern Jew who may not have much knowledge in this area anyway.
I could be wrong, but this would seem to be the logical explanation. Especially if the rabbis had no reason to be suspicious.

I would say that anyone in [potentially] shady business should always be suspicious...

[DovtheBear]

Oy vey. I now see that I know one of those charged.
I have no words.

[beeweegee]

I would say that anyone in [potentially] shady business should always be suspicious...

I guess so, but the point remains. These guys (or in this case, girl) are REALLY good, and can spend months preparing for these kinds of operations.

[Achas Veachas]

I guess so, but the point remains. These guys (or in this case, girl) are REALLY good, and can spend months preparing for these kinds of operations.

Or....

[sky121]

Oy vey. I now see that I know one of those charged.
I have no words.

+1  It's awful.   I feel so sick to my stomach. They're poor families.

             

[beeweegee]

+1  It's awful.   I feel so sick to my stomach. They're poor families.

           

Just terrible. And their Talmidim...

[good sam]

No offense to good sam (who started the thread), but this wasn't exactly a well-traveled thread before this story. This halachic discussion is unlikely to be impeding any real news.

I take offense 

[rots5]

so sad! this whole situation. again, i am disgusted that some jews are happy about this story... i just dont get it. i know countless stories about this situations, i dont want to talk about the specific ways they did what they did, but for a husband to with hold a get from a wife (and i know stories where husbands demanded BIG numbers like 2 mm), does that make sense?

i saw this comment on one of the websites:

the loshon hora here is appalling. i am a former agunah who was a client of rabbi epstien and no one fought harder than he did. yes i paid him because i was purchasing his services, the way i would pay a lawyer. he didnt take money specifically to free me. He published a booklet of warning signs for women to look out for in shidduchim that i distributed to all my friends. they way that commenters here are assuming he took bribes to hold women hostage is a slap in the face to all he has done. yes he broke alot of rules to make things happen because unfortubately there is not straught and narrow way to make things happen in our system. i am horrified at how people here are rejoicing at his mosfortune just because he has the title rabbi. some of you are so dripping with hatred and venom that you salivate at seeing anyone with a beard suffer. you are disgusting.

[Achas Veachas]

so sad! this whole situation. again, i am disgusted that some jews are happy about this story... i just dont get it. i know countless stories about this situations, i dont want to talk about the specific ways they did what they did, but for a husband to with hold a get from a wife (and i know stories where husbands demanded BIG numbers like 2 mm), does that make sense?

i saw this comment on one of the websites:

the loshon hora here is appalling. i am a former agunah who was a client of rabbi epstien and no one fought harder than he did. yes i paid him because i was purchasing his services, the way i would pay a lawyer. he didnt take money specifically to free me. He published a booklet of warning signs for women to look out for in shidduchim that i distributed to all my friends. they way that commenters here are assuming he took bribes to hold women hostage is a slap in the face to all he has done. yes he broke alot of rules to make things happen because unfortubately there is not straught and narrow way to make things happen in our system. i am horrified at how people here are rejoicing at his mosfortune just because he has the title rabbi. some of you are so dripping with hatred and venom that you salivate at seeing anyone with a beard suffer. you are disgusting.

Appalling! I don't read comments in general, and I'm sure glad I'm not reading any on THIS story.

[rots5]

Appalling! I don't read comments in general, and I'm sure glad I'm not reading any on THIS story.

its heart wrenching... i know 3 of the ppl. its so sad!

[Hirshthg]

I don't think the FBI should be investigating Orthodox Jews who live under and enforce traditional Jewish law. They have real crimes to go after in Monsey:)

[Dan]

I don't think the FBI should be investigating Orthodox Jews who live under and enforce traditional Jewish law. They have real crimes to go after in Monsey:)

Traditional Jewish law is to charge $70K to shock people's beitzim with a cattle prod?
As others said ff it was just a fried beitzim g'mach without the $70K this probably never gets investigated...

[rots5]

Traditional Jewish law is to charge $70K to shock people's beitzim with a cattle prod?

its not how it was done, its the situation that these men withholding gittin have put the jews in a whole on. now it can become even more common....

[Dave321]

The real question is why is everyone is saying they did it for the money. One of the people charged (in fact the main one), has a very rich shver. (world famous). So why would he need to do this?

[sky121]

The real question is why is everyone is saying they did it for the money. One of the people charged (in fact the main one), has a very rich shver. (world famous). So why would he need to do this?

Why would someone who has money want more? Hmm...


 No one is saying they did it FOR the money but.. there was money involved. A lot of it.
And having a rich shver doesn't mean you have money.
And having money doesn't mean you don't want more. In fact, just the opposite.