FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[MarkS]

  #timeforthePrenupToBecomeTheDefaultBeforeTheChuppah

According to many rabbanim the Halachik prenup aint so halachik. Apparently, having a way out of the marriage baked into it (as a condition) could mess around with the validity of the marriage.

[CS1]

According to many rabbanim the Halachik prenup aint so halachik. Apparently, having a way out of the marriage baked into it (as a condition) could mess around with the validity of the marriage.

There are also many top Charedi and Chabad rabbonim who say that it's 100% kosher. They'll do it if asked now, and many are promoting it and will only be m'sader if made (or created right after.)

[Iz]

There are also many top Charedi and Chabad rabbonim who say that it's 100% kosher. They'll do it if asked now, and many are promoting it and will only be m'sader if made (or created right after.)

For example?

[MarkS]

Endorse it:    
Rabbi Zalman Nechemia Goldberg (Member, Beth Din of Yerushalayim)
Rabbi Yitzchok Liebes, zt”l   (former Av Beth Din, Iggud HaRabbonim)
Rabbi Gedalia Dov Schwartz  (Av Beth Din of the Beth Din of America)
Rabbi Osher Weiss   (Rosh Kollel, Machon Minchas Osher L’Torah V’Horaah)
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, zt"l   (former Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Israel)
Rabbi Chaim Zimbalist     (Member, Beth Din of Tel Aviv)
And a whole bunch of YU type rabbis  http://theprenup.org/pdf/YU_Roshei_Yeshiva_Prenup_Letter.pdf

Don't endorse it: 
Everyone else. Believe me they tried to get mainstream support but couldn't

The Prenup was drafted by Rabbi Mordechai Willig, Sgan Av Beth Din of the Beth Din of America, and a Rosh Yeshiva at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary of Yeshiva University, in consultation with halachic and legal experts. The concepts contained in The Prenup predate 1994, when it was introduced.

I don't mean to disparage the above Rabbis, but none of the other Gedolim or Rabbanim in the world accept it.

[dealfinder85]

According to many rabbanim the Halachik prenup aint so halachik. Apparently, having a way out of the marriage baked into it (as a condition) could mess around with the validity of the marriage.

are you aware of how the prenup works?

[avromie7]

Update.

This is terrible. They just sentenced 70 yr old Rabbi Epstein to 10 years in prison: http://bit.ly/GetRabbiSentencedTENYearsInPrison
He was just trying to make the abuser do the right thing and give his wife a get. There are way more dangerous criminals out there that don't even serve one month!?! And they give him TEN years!?!?   #timeforthePrenupToBecomeTheDefaultBeforeTheChuppah

It's the least that can be done to someone who made mamzerim

[avromie7]

According to many rabbanim the Halachik prenup aint so halachik. Apparently, having a way out of the marriage baked into it (as a condition) could mess around with the validity of the marriage.

+1 most in the ultra orthodox world don't allow it

[gozalim]

There are also many top Charedi and Chabad rabbonim who say that it's 100% kosher. They'll do it if asked now, and many are promoting it and will only be m'sader if made (or created right after.)

I think you may be confusing with another chabad rabbi who created his own prenup version, which only forces they cooperate with beis din, instead of forcing get.
It's probably a lot better halachically, but I don't think it ever took off.

[CS1]

I think you may be confusing with another chabad rabbi who created his own prenup version, which only forces they cooperate with beis din, instead of forcing get.
It's probably a lot better halachically, but I don't think it ever took off.

are you referring to this one? http://chabadinfo.com/crown_heights/rabbi-gutnick-speaks-to-crown-heights/

[MarkS]

are you aware of how the prenup works?

2. If the couple separates, the Jewish law obligation of the husband to support his wife is formalized, so that he is obligated to pay $150 per day (indexed to inflation), from the date he receives notice from her of her intention to collect that sum, until the date a Jewish divorce is obtained. This support obligation ends if the wife fails to appear at the Beth Din of America or to abide by a decision of the Beth Din of America.

I know that sounds very umproblamatic, however, consider this. The kesubah is a finely worded document that needs to be written exactly as prescribed. Addidn in new conditions into the marriage can complicate things. Apparently, mainstream jewish halachic leaders feel that this obligatory stuff related to dissolving the marriage on her request upsets the equilibrium that a kiddushin requires.

[CS1]

2. If the couple separates, the Jewish law obligation of the husband to support his wife is formalized, so that he is obligated to pay $150 per day (indexed to inflation), from the date he receives notice from her of her intention to collect that sum, until the date a Jewish divorce is obtained. This support obligation ends if the wife fails to appear at the Beth Din of America or to abide by a decision of the Beth Din of America.

I know that sounds very umproblamatic, however, consider this. The kesubah is a finely worded document that needs to be written exactly as prescribed. Addidn in new conditions into the marriage can complicate things. Apparently, mainstream jewish halachic leaders feel that this obligatory stuff related to dissolving the marriage on her request upsets the equilibrium that a kiddushin requires.

-1
There are mainstream strictly Orthodox halachic leaders and rabbonim who state that this fee is in place when the husband makes the choice to refuse to give the get.
Refusal is not permitted by halacha, so this fee encourages them to provide the get as soon as required -- especially in abuse and harmful situations.

[yuneeq]

Update.

This is terrible. They just sentenced 70 yr old Rabbi Epstein to 10 years in prison: http://bit.ly/GetRabbiSentencedTENYearsInPrison
He was just trying to make the abuser do the right thing and give his wife a get. There are way more dangerous criminals out there that don't even serve one month!?! And they give him TEN years!?!?   #timeforthePrenupToBecomeTheDefaultBeforeTheChuppah

He got sentenced 10 years for trying to beat up an imaginary husband...

[MarkS]

-1
There are mainstream strictly Orthodox halachic leaders and rabbonim who state that this fee is in place when the husband makes the choice to refuse to give the get.
Refusal is not permitted by halacha, so this fee encourages them to provide the get as soon as required -- especially in abuse and harmful situations.

So then why pray tell could they only get (pun intended) a few signatures (some from dead Rabbis)?   

When something has so few signatures (and most of them are from YU  there's obviously something wrong with it.
The Shabbos switch also had a list of haskamos. Turns out that the fact that he was missing all the normative halachik poskim and dug around from a few that were mattir made his scheme unravel the day he started advertising it. 

[CS1]

He got sentenced 10 years for trying to beat up an imaginary husband...

According to the article, they were "involved in a plot". I don't think that he actually harmed that 'imaginary husband'.
There are criminals, rapists, thieves, people who beat wives/children, drug-dealers, kidnappers, etc.. who are in prison for 1/10 of the time, if at all.

[avromie7]

According to the article, they were "involved in a plot". I don't think that he actually harmed that 'imaginary husband'.
There are criminals, rapists, thieves, people who beat wives/children, drug-dealers, kidnappers, etc.. who are in prison for 1/10 of the time, if at all.

They didn't harm the imaginary husband because he didnt exist

Gang leaders don't get away with less.

[Aaaron]

According to the article, they were "involved in a plot". I don't think that he actually harmed that 'imaginary husband'.
There are criminals, rapists, thieves, people who beat wives/children, drug-dealers, kidnappers, etc.. who are in prison for 1/10 of the time, if at all.

You're also forgetting that he'll most likely serve a fractions of it.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's out in ~3.

[CS1]

So then why pray tell could they only get (pun intended) a few signatures (some from dead Rabbis)?   

When something has so few signatures (and most of them are from YU  there's obviously something wrong with it.
The Shabbos switch also had a list of haskamos. Turns out that the fact that he was missing all the normative halachik poskim and dug around from a few that were mattir made his scheme unravel the day he started advertising it.

This is not at all like the "shabbos switch". this is a kosher.
there are possibly another 50+ Orthodox Rabbis that approve and promote this, yet they do not want their names on a public document.
The few that are on that list were taken from here. Link: http://theprenup.org/rabbinic.html

[avromie7]

This is not at all like the "shabbos switch". this is a kosher.
there are possibly another 50+ Orthodox Rabbis that approve and promote this, yet they do not want their names on a public document.
The few that are on that list were taken from here. Link: http://theprenup.org/rabbinic.html

There are definitely many other orthodox rabbis who absolutely oppose it like R' Moshe Feinstein ztz"l

[gozalim]

are you referring to this one? http://chabadinfo.com/crown_heights/rabbi-gutnick-speaks-to-crown-heights/

no, talking about R. feigelstock

[kracked dude]

So here we go again