FBI Sting Operation; Rabbis Arrested

[Name Changed]

Don't want to read any of this thread for various reasons, but I do want to repeat something I was told over shabbos. If these people were in fact acting kdas uchdin (which is sounds like for the most part) they are no different than the people who learned torah with children and preformed milos in communist Russia. They are the closest this we have today of moiser nefesh al kiddush hashem

+1000

Very well said.

[sky121]

I obviously can't speak for everyone but I would venture to guess we all agree that helping out these ladies whose husbands are trying to torture them for no good reason is a big Mitzvah.
 And I would imagine that most of us here don't have a problem with the general idea of what these Rabbonim were doing. I know I don't.
 
 There are obviously a few concerning details in the story, like if all that money was truly necessary and if the cases were looked into well.  Now that the stories are so publicized people are wondering about those facts.  And rightly so.   

But otherwise I would imagine we all stand by them with what they were doing.

[sillypainter]

I obviously can't speak for everyone but I would venture to guess we all agree that helping out these ladies whose husbands are trying to torture them for no good reason is a big Mitzvah.
 And I would imagine that most of us here don't have a problem with the general idea of what these Rabbonim were doing. I know I don't.
 
 There are obviously a few concerning details in the story, like if all that money was truly necessary and if the cases were looked into well.  Now that the stories are so publicized people are wondering about those facts.  And rightly so.   

But otherwise I would imagine we all stand by them with what they were doing.

There were a couple of "tough" guys involved, do you think they work for free? I wouldn't do it for less than 10K, the amount makes sense.

And btw, I also don't have a problem what they did, it's sometimes necessary to do these kind of things, and we all know that these people knew limits and not to kill anybody, this is why heimishe "tough" guys were needed, and they couldn't rely on Tony to do it, Tony can kill the guy, our brothers will not kill.

[PlatinumGuy]

There were a couple of "tough" guys involved, do you think they work for free? I wouldn't do it for less than 10K, the amount makes sense.

Do you think the Mohel in communist Russia was paid $10k for his services?

[sillypainter]

Do you think the Mohel in communist Russia was paid $10k for his services?

How dare you compare a bunch of "tough" guys who eat burgers and fries all day to a mohel in Russia?

My point is that the "rabbis" were NOT taking the money to themselves, they HAD to pay for tough guys to have their mission accomplished.

[Ergel]

Do you think the Mohel in communist Russia was paid $10k for his services?

+1

If the geitim aren't kosher, it only made it worse.

I agree if things are done properly it is very costly and time consuming and the batei dinim have real ways of determining schar batalah and their expenses. Not so much in this case

I don't know if that's all true, but if it is, sounds pretty whimsical evidence upon which they agreed to force the get.
And the 10k for about an hour of the beis din's time is definitely way above schar batalah.

[sky121]

How dare you compare a bunch of "tough" guys who eat burgers and fries all day to a mohel in Russia?

My point is that the "rabbis" were NOT taking the money to themselves, they HAD to pay for tough guys to have their mission accomplished.

The point is that at this point none of us really know that. Those are the concerning things were unsure of.

[CountValentine]

Tony can kill the guy, our brothers will not kill.

You all have a lot to learn about the real world. At some point you will have to open your eyes and realize what is going on. If the charges are true then these guys are nothing but common thugs.

Disclaimer: While I quoted your post my response was not direct just at you. It is directed at most of the posts in this thread.

[sky121]

In the real world whether we agree with what they did or not it's against the law. No one is denying that.

[Achas Veachas]

Do you think the Mohel in communist Russia was paid $10k for his services?

As a grandson of a "Mohel in Russia" I can tell you that even though the mohel didn't take 10G, thousands of rubels were needed to keep the "Ivans and Igors" quiet...

[Centro]

There are obviously a few concerning details in the story, like if all that money was truly necessary and if the cases were looked into well.  Now that the stories are so publicized people are wondering about those facts.  And rightly so.   

Great concerns,

But ummmm.. maybe the money was totally necessary?
Maybe they definitely looked into their cases?
I mean, why think negative if you could think positive ( which in this case it makes sense )?

[Achas Veachas]

Does against the law= bad?
My great grandfather died in Siberia for "breaking the law"

[sky121]

Great concerns,

But ummmm.. maybe the money was totally necessary?
Maybe they definitely looked into their cases?
I mean, why think negative if you could think positive ( which in this case it makes sense )?

Maybe. The whole point is that we don't know.  I wouldn't think negative if it didn't sound a bit concerning. I'm not thinking positive or negative.  Those are just parts of the story that concern me. From the story it sounds like they perhaps might not have looked into the case deep enough. And it sounds like a lot of money. That's all. Valid concerns I believe.

[Mutty]

Great concerns,

But ummmm.. maybe the money was totally necessary?
Maybe they definitely looked into their cases?
I mean, why think negative if you could think positive ( which in this case it makes sense )?

+100
I think there's much more to the story than we know about. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt as we should and hope for the best.

[CountValentine]

Does against the law= bad?

Do you believe “the end justifies the means”?

[sky121]

Does against the law= bad?
My great grandfather died in Siberia for "breaking the law"

It's not exactly a black and white answer. Breaking the law is ... against the law. And you could be punished for it.

I don't know how others look at it but there are plenty of things people do that are breaking the law that I don't specifically have a problem with.

If my loved ones were dying and needed an organ and I could buy one against the law on the black market, would I do it?
If someone goes, and kills someone who tortured and killed their loved one, do I hold it against him?

There are plenty of things that are against the law that I don't think are "bad".  And there are various degrees of it too. Even the above two examples aren't the same. 

I don't believe (not halachically, or personally) that people should take the law into their own hands when dealing with a "bad guy".
On the other hand I wouldn't have a problem buying an organ to save someone's life.

[sillypainter]

You all have a lot to learn about the real world. At some point you will have to open your eyes and realize what is going on. If the charges are true then these guys are nothing but common thugs.

Disclaimer: While I quoted your post my response was not direct just at you. It is directed at most of the posts in this thread.

You can say whatever you want about orthodox jews, but they will NEVER kill.....show me one case where an "orthodox" jew killed somebody, this is one thing we are proud of. you may find 1 or 2 stories in the last century (I can't think of one, but I'm sure there is).

When I was a child, our local chief of police was interviewed in the local newspaper, and one of the questions to him was about the jewish community, and how his department deals with them. His answer was, if they would be my only neighborhood, we could close our police department.

[sky121]

You can say whatever you want about orthodox jews, but they will NEVER kill.....show me one case where an "orthodox" jew killed somebody, this is one thing we are proud of. you may find 1 or 2 stories in the last century (I can't think of one, but I'm sure there is).

When I was a child, our local chief of police was interviewed in the local newspaper, and one of the questions to him was about the jewish community, and how his department deals with them. His answer was, if they would be my only neighborhood, we could close our police department.

What does that have to do with anything that CV is saying?

[Name Changed]

You all have a lot to learn about the real world. At some point you will have to open your eyes and realize what is going on. If the charges are true then these guys are nothing but common thugs.

Disclaimer: While I quoted your post my response was not direct just at you. It is directed at most of the posts in this thread.

-1

The only thugs are the husbands that leave their wives an aguna

If only you understood how much an aguna suffers.

My heart has no mercy for any man that leaves his wife, just to cause her to suffer.

[sillypainter]

What does that have to do with anything that CV is saying?

Just read...

I said before the rabbis made sure to hire "orthodox" tough guys so the husband will not get killed, you can't trust Tony with this. The money is necessary to pay for this....their goal was not the kidnapping nor torture, they wanted a get. There is a big difference if somebody kidnaps for money or other bad things, or you just want this person to not hold a gun to their wife's head.